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glennts's avatar
glennts
Explorer
Apr 12, 2020

Puzzeling thru a 12v to 24v solar upgrade

Currently have 400w of 12v panels feeding four 6v US Battery 2200's in series/parallel.The 12V battery output goes to a 1000w inverter dedicated to a single plug output for computers. There is a Blue Sea combiner that flows between the coach battery or back when on shore / generator and the panels are sleeping. And a TM 2025-RV. A simple and effective setup.

Now upgrading to 3 Hanwah Q Peak 325W panels that will feed into a Tracer 4210AN cc that replaces a Rogue cc which died after years of good service. So the questions that arise are (A)to allow the MPPT to down convert the 24v input to 12v and keep everything else as is. Or (B)to switch the batteries to a four 6v series 24v bank. A 24v bank complicates the Blue Sea combiner arraingment and obliges me to either buck the 24v output down to 12v to use the existing 1000W inverter or simply get a 24v / 2000W inverter.

If I lose the charging flexiblity advantage gained by the Blue Sea combiner, would I gain it back by tying a 24v / 2KW inverter into the RV's PD distribution panel and letting the solar panel output find its own way to the coach battery. A further gain from this would be from also having the solar output be available for general AC distribution. If the 24V inverter output is tied into the house distribution panel is there a better way other than manual switching to insure there is no conflict when the AC source becomes generator/shore power? Also, is the Blue Sea combiner which allowed current to flow from the shore power charged house battery to the solar bank now useless? I can see how stepping up the voltage on the solar bank side on the combiner might allow for some use but the combiner relies on voltage monitoring for its switching and that would no doubt be compromised with step conversion. Is there a way around this that would allow for generator / shore power to be available to charge the solar bank?

And, as a secondary issue. If the batteries are to be re-aligned to a 4 s string for a 24V bank. Two of the batteries are 2 yrs older. Is there any consideration to be given as to the order in the series. Older ones in the middle? Older ones at the ends? Alternating? Does it matter? They will be balanced out before re-connecting. When these batteries are past their usefulness in a year or two I'll probably go the re-purposed Tesla car 24V Lipo battery route.

Any input will be appreciated. Thanks.
  • Be sure the three panels are in parallel so you don't fry that controller.
  • Thanks you all for the words of wisdom. I'll stay with the 12V setup as the easiest way to get started with these panels. When the batteries finally fade and need to be replaced I'll address the 24V question. At some point I want to try the Tesla Lipo battery solution from these guys: >>https://hsrmotors.com/products/battery_modules<<

    I'm building an off-grid house in Colorado and would like to get some small scale handling experience with them before going whole hog.
  • @2oldman

    "Are those panels 36v?"
    40.13v.

    >>...output be available for general AC distribution.

    " I don't understand that."

    The AC output from the 2KW 24V inverter when tied into the PD distribution panel would then power Micro-wave, AC outlets.

    "IC's have their own transfer switch."

    Don't know what the IC reference is.

    Because it would be sharing the same AC input circuit into the ProgressiveDynamics panel as the generator / shorepower, the inverter would need to be "off" when the generator is on. An example would be using the generator to charge the solar bank. The 24V inverter has a manual remote switch but that requires me to not be stupid... Hybred Solar Charge Controllers for off-grid living can distinguish between solar and generator source and switch accordingly. So was wondering if there was variation on a combiner that would take care of this automatically.
  • glennts wrote:
    And, as a secondary issue. If the batteries are to be re-aligned to a 4 s string for a 24V bank. Two of the batteries are 2 yrs older. Is there any consideration to be given as to the order in the series.


    If they are in series, no.
  • Hi,

    Much as I love 24 volt battery banks, I don't think it is worth while, in this case.

    If you still go that route don't do DC to dc conversion for the inverter. Replace it instead.

    In your shoes, I'd stay with the 12 volt format for the battery bank.
  • naturist wrote:
    Your Tracer 4210AN CC allows an input voltage of 100 volts. You can safely put those 3 - 24 volt panels in parallel with no further modifications to your system.

    The question really is how much WORK (and money) do you want to put into this system.


    No on the volts!!!! That 325w panel will have a Voc (that's what you use for this) more like 46v (will get specs later to confirm exact figure) so 3 x 46 is 138 and that is at 25C. You have to allow some margin for when the voltage goes higher at times too.

    https://s3.amazonaws.com/ecodirect_docs/HANWHA/Q.PLUS+L-G4.2+320-345.pdf
  • Your Tracer 4210AN CC allows an input voltage of 100 volts. You can safely put those 3 - 24 volt panels in parallel with no further modifications to your system.

    The question really is how much WORK (and money) do you want to put into this system.
  • Stick with 12 volts on your battery. The MPPT will convert down just fine.

    Although you are a bit over driven at 12v and 40a. Maybe a 60 amp controller is better.

    If you were starting from scratch buying new batteries inverter etc then maybe 24v.
  • IMO there is no real advantage to going 24v battery and just a huge PITA to switch things around. Your set- up works now, so leave it be!

    One thing is to use fatter wire from the new controller to battery since it will be 12v and be carrying more amps than you did before.
  • Now upgrading to 3 Hanwah Q Peak 325W panels that will feed into a Tracer 4210AN cc

    Are those panels 36v?

    If I lose the charging flexiblity advantage gained by the Blue Sea combiner, would I gain it back by tying a 24v / 2KW inverter into the RV's PD distribution panel and letting the solar panel output find its own way to the coach battery.

    Through the converter? yes.

    A further gain from this would be from also having the solar output be available for general AC distribution.

    I don't understand that.

    If the 24V inverter output is tied into the house distribution panel is there a better way other than manual switching to insure there is no conflict when the AC source becomes generator/shore power?

    IC's have their own transfer switch.

    Also, is the Blue Sea combiner which allowed current to flow from the shore power charged house battery to the solar bank now useless?

    If one is 12v and the other 24v, yeah.

    Is there a way around this that would allow for generator / shore power to be available to charge the solar bank?

    With a 24v charger.

    Is there any consideration to be given as to the order in the series?

    Series hookups will as robust as the weakest battery, in terms of its ability to provide amperage. Older batteries may hinder this.