V-10, She cranks good, but she's a No Start

"What happened to my full tank of gasoline, you say was contaminated?"

"Uh, we did you a favor and disposed of it"

Yes and you imply the ethanol will attract moisture from the air and then water will pool at the bottom of the tank. If you wait long enough the tank will overflow. That will not actually happen. As the fuel becomes saturated it will stop absorbing water from the air. And yes in extreme temperature conditions water might precipitate out.

Condensation is a separate issue. Ethanol will tend to absorb the condensation and allow it to be burned. Pure gasoline in the old days did not have this effect. And yes I have removed the top of a carburetor to find the bowl full of water causing a no start.

Fast forward to today and fuel tanks are better sealed from the atmosphere and ethanol tends to remove what moisture does sneak in.

Article also says some water dissolved will reduce the corrosive nature of ethanol on aluminum parts.

Just saying water in fuel is less of an issue with ethanol. Yes you can create some exception to still have water issues. Use the RV and you will not have water issues.

My comment was inspired by the second hand comment from the mechanic to drain the tank to get rid of water and bad gas. I think it was just FUD and the fuel could have easily been saved and reused.

smkettner wrote:
Dick, yes that is correct. If someone actually gets a full gallon of water in your tank it will take some time to get the water out. And may cause issues until it is gone. My point was ethanol does not cause a water in fuel issue... it resolves the issue. And yes it is still possible to have excess water to cause issues but it is rare today vs the pre-ethanol days.

Not trying to be argumentative just technically correct. Again referring to the referenced article regarding small engines and ethanol fuel, the ethanol tends to absorb moisture out of the air so under high humidity conditions (especially with a partially filled tank) the ethanol will increase the water content to the point that phase separation can occur. In the other articles I have read about this issue, phase separation is common especially if the tank is not keep full to minimize amount of moisture laden air. In cool damp weather, you can also have condensation occur adding additional water to the fuel.

Dick

Dick, yes that is correct. If someone actually gets a full gallon of water in your tank it will take some time to get the water out. And may cause issues until it is gone. My point was ethanol does not cause a water in fuel issue... it resolves the issue. And yes it is still possible to have excess water to cause issues but it is rare today vs the pre-ethanol days.

smkettner wrote:
Ethanol actually helps water to dissolve into the fuel to burn nicely and go out the tailpipe.
You should not have water in fuel issues as we had in the past. Main ingredient to fuel treatments that remove water.... ethanol.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel#Ethanol_fuel_mixtures

That is not the whole story. According to the article you referenced, the amount of water that can be handled without phase separation is based on the % amount of ethanol in the gasoline. For El0 there is not enough ethanol present to prevent phase separation if the water content gets to high and the water then causes problems. That issue is addressed in the same article where it discusses the hydroscopic nature of ethanol.

Dick

RJsfishin wrote:
There was no evidence of actual water being in the fuel.This was only a suggestion to drain the tank completely because of ethanol having the reputation of attracting condensation etc. The owner drained the nearly full tank of 2 yr old fuel himself before the mobile tech changed the pump. He has since burned that fuel in his truck, and said it run fine.

I myself am still using 3 yr old 40:1 fuel in a little tiller I use a couple hrs every year, and it still runs fine. I don't agree w/ the ones that say ethanol fuel goes bad in 3-6-9 momths,.....or at least I have proved that to be false for myself.
Speaking no stabil,.....years ago, 1 yr old leaded fuel would smell bad and only run w/ 1/2 choke.
In my experience, todays no lead E-10 is still good after 2 and even 3 yrs. And it does not varnish,.....keeping fuel bowls etc relatively clean.
That's not speaking of the added problems that come from condensation, etc, etc.

I have not had that kind of experience with leaving fuel in a small engine. Our EU 1000 had to have it's carb overhauled when I left fuel with original Stabil in the tank for a year. I also had a 5 HP tiller that I ran until it ran out of gas not start a year later until it had a carb job. I now totally drain our Honda EU generators when I am through with them even though I use a double dose of Stabil Marine.

I do leave my lawnmower with a full tank of treated fuel for a few months between December leaf mulching and March weed mowing. That seems to work ok.

Dick

Ethanol actually helps water to dissolve into the fuel to burn nicely and go out the tailpipe.
You should not have water in fuel issues as we had in the past. Main ingredient to fuel treatments that remove water.... ethanol.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel#Ethanol_fuel_mixtures

There was no evidence of actual water being in the fuel.This was only a suggestion to drain the tank completely because of ethanol having the reputation of attracting condensation etc. The owner drained the nearly full tank of 2 yr old fuel himself before the mobile tech changed the pump. He has since burned that fuel in his truck, and said it run fine.

I myself am still using 3 yr old 40:1 fuel in a little tiller I use a couple hrs every year, and it still runs fine. I don't agree w/ the ones that say ethanol fuel goes bad in 3-6-9 momths,.....or at least I have proved that to be false for myself.
Speaking no stabil,.....years ago, 1 yr old leaded fuel would smell bad and only run w/ 1/2 choke.
In my experience, todays no lead E-10 is still good after 2 and even 3 yrs. And it does not varnish,.....keeping fuel bowls etc relatively clean.
That's not speaking of the added problems that come from condensation, etc, etc.

RJsfishin wrote:
Reporting back,...........
This did end up being a bad fuel pump, 2001 v-10 w/ only 28,000 miles on it.
This is probably an example of non use causing the pump to go bad.
They completely drained the tank to get all the ethanol water out of it.

Was there really much water in the tank? That usuall means the tank set for long periods of time only partially filled especially in cool damp weather. The vehicle should be stored with a full tank and with a good dose of fuel stabilizer. Even that is only good for 6-8 months.

There is also the possibility that the owner got the water from a fuel refill from a staion that was not maintainin their tanks properly.

Dick

I don't have stats to back it up, but I think these fuel pump failures are as much from (1) disuse, not use, and(2) ethanol, which doesn't keep well.

Your report supports both of my points.

Now get your friend to (1) USE it, (2) replace fuel filter once in awhile, reduces workload on the pump, (3) add stabilizer like StaBil to the fuel, genset will thank him and the fuel won't spoil as easily.