BeerCan wrote:
Come on man really? This is a STRONGLY recommends you use it religiously? Seems like you are trying to spread misinformation.Take Care of your Fuel Injection System
Diesel fuel quality is critical for reliable engine operation. Motorcraft® Cetane Booster & Performance Improver, PM-22-A (U.S.) / PM-22-B
(Canada) can be added to improve fuel economy, starting ability, and reduce engine wear.
The water separator should be drained monthly or when the "Water in Fuel Lamp" illuminates.
Biodiesel fuel must not exceed 20% (B20). To avoid cold weather fuel gelling, add 6 oz. of Motorcraft® Anti-Gel & Performance Improver
PM-23-A (U.S.) / PM-23-B (Canada) to every new tank of fuel.
As to why they make you sign it, I imagine it is because the maintenance issues are greater with a diesel. This document is covering the things you need to take care of to keep the truck running correctly. People coming from the gasoline world are used to "gas & go"
FWIW I did not get that document to sign.
BeerCan wrote:Huntindog wrote:BeerCan wrote:
Come on man really? That is a STRONGLY recommends?Take Care of your Fuel Injection System
Diesel fuel quality is critical for reliable engine operation. Motorcraft® Cetane Booster & Performance Improver, PM-22-A (U.S.) / PM-22-B
(Canada) can be added to improve fuel economy, starting ability, and reduce engine wear.
The water separator should be drained monthly or when the "Water in Fuel Lamp" illuminates.
Biodiesel fuel must not exceed 20% (B20). To avoid cold weather fuel gelling, add 6 oz. of Motorcraft® Anti-Gel & Performance Improver
PM-23-A (U.S.) / PM-23-B (Canada) to every new tank of fuel.
As to why they make you sign it, I imagine it is because the maintenance issues are greater with a diesel. This document is covering the things you need to take care of to keep the truck running correctly. People coming from the gasoline world are used to "gas & go"
FWIW I did not get that document to sign.
You are getting warm. Ford diesels DO have more stringent maintainence, compared to GM and Dodge which is what I originally said, before I was accused of being incorrect.
So I posted documentation to prove what I said.
Some may not like it, but facts are facts.
Ford does have such a document, and people have had to sign it on delivery.
I don't remember the specifics of Dodges maintainence requirements, other than they are not as stringent as Fords.
I own a GM. There is NO testing of antifreeze required, and NO warning on the DIC about it.
There is NO scheduled draining of the fuel filter recommended.
There is NO fuel additive recommended... In fact GM recommends NOT using additives!!
And to add to what I already said, Ford requires fuel filter changes at 15K. GM says to go by the DIC, or every two years, whichever comes first.
I had about 20K and two years when I changed mine. The DIC stated more than 50% at that time. So a GM can likely go about 45K on a filter, providing good fuel of course. The GM actually measures the pressure drop, so dirty fuel will make the DIC calculate a change more often than clean fuel.
Also since Ford still uses the engine injectors for regening, the possibility of fuel diluting the oil exists in their design. This means that oil changes are more frequent.
These are some of the differences that are important as they relate to COST of ownership.
NO fear mongering here. Just the facts, like them or not.
You are posting mis-information. I read and quoted the document you linked (did you read it?) in my previous post. So pm-22a is not STRONGLY recommended as you say. All it says is that you "can" use it.Yes and the sentence before that" fuel quality is CRITICAL" You can interpret that however you want... But when I am asked to sign such a document, I read and pay attention to every sentence. By signing it you are affirming that you have read and understand what is written.. Says that right where you sign.
More mis-information the fuel filters are not recommended to be changed at 15k miles, but at 22500 miles. (edited to add: 15k is a severe duty)
Since I tow heavy 80%+ of the time, I use the severe service schedule. Since this is a towing forum, I strongly suspect that is what most here should be following...One doesn't need to spend the kind of money these diesels cost just to use it as a grocery getter.
Oil changes are 7500K (that is when my olm goes off)
7500 every time? That would make it a "dumb" OLM. One that doesn't track usage patterns when calculating when a oil change is needed. The GM OLM varies depending on usage. I generally get 9-10K before the message. There is some interesting history on this. Paul Burnecke (sp?) was a engineer on the Ford Scorpion project. (what the 6.7 was called in development) he has posted that the reason the oil capacity was reduced from 15 qts. to IIRC 12 qts. was to make the new ford more competitive cost wise for maintainence. It still takes more than the GMs 10 qts. and due to the emissions system they chose needs to be changed more often as a precaution from possible oil contamination, but the cost of a individual oil change is now more competitive. So I guess that fools some in believing it is the same.
Here are the manuals Ford 2013 owners manuals
I don't care if you like the Ford or not, just argue the real facts and not some made up BS
fivecodys wrote:
Wow! OP here.
I didn't mean to stir up a hornets nest. :B
Huntindog wrote:BeerCan wrote:
Come on man really? That is a STRONGLY recommends?Take Care of your Fuel Injection System
Diesel fuel quality is critical for reliable engine operation. Motorcraft® Cetane Booster & Performance Improver, PM-22-A (U.S.) / PM-22-B
(Canada) can be added to improve fuel economy, starting ability, and reduce engine wear.
The water separator should be drained monthly or when the "Water in Fuel Lamp" illuminates.
Biodiesel fuel must not exceed 20% (B20). To avoid cold weather fuel gelling, add 6 oz. of Motorcraft® Anti-Gel & Performance Improver
PM-23-A (U.S.) / PM-23-B (Canada) to every new tank of fuel.
As to why they make you sign it, I imagine it is because the maintenance issues are greater with a diesel. This document is covering the things you need to take care of to keep the truck running correctly. People coming from the gasoline world are used to "gas & go"
FWIW I did not get that document to sign.
You are getting warm. Ford diesels DO have more stringent maintainence, compared to GM and Dodge which is what I originally said, before I was accused of being incorrect.
So I posted documentation to prove what I said.
Some may not like it, but facts are facts.
Ford does have such a document, and people have had to sign it on delivery.
I don't remember the specifics of Dodges maintainence requirements, other than they are not as stringent as Fords.
I own a GM. There is NO testing of antifreeze required, and NO warning on the DIC about it.
There is NO scheduled draining of the fuel filter recommended.
There is NO fuel additive recommended... In fact GM recommends NOT using additives!!
And to add to what I already said, Ford requires fuel filter changes at 15K. GM says to go by the DIC, or every two years, whichever comes first.
I had about 20K and two years when I changed mine. The DIC stated more than 50% at that time. So a GM can likely go about 45K on a filter, providing good fuel of course. The GM actually measures the pressure drop, so dirty fuel will make the DIC calculate a change more often than clean fuel.
Also since Ford still uses the engine injectors for regening, the possibility of fuel diluting the oil exists in their design. This means that oil changes are more frequent.
These are some of the differences that are important as they relate to COST of ownership.
NO fear mongering here. Just the facts, like them or not.
#40Fan wrote:FishOnOne wrote:Huntindog wrote:Turtle n Peeps wrote:Ford also has some maintainence requirements that the other two do not..fivecodys wrote:
I'm starting to 'kick the tires' and I really like the F-350 Ford.
What are you guys hearing about their new 6.7L PowerStroke?
Did they get it right this time?
Thanks in advance for your comments.
Bill
Define "get it right." :)
The good is, this engine is waaaaaaaaaaay better than the 6.0 or 6.4 Nav engines. All in all they seem to be a pretty good engine.
The bad?...........well:
Lots and lots and lots of turbo problems. This one is very troubling because it seems as if Ford can't fix the problem.
Some HPFP and fuel system problems. Not too many of these but BIG, BIG bucks to fix! :E And most of the time Ford will blame you and you will have to pay for it. :E
Quite a few valve problems.
More than I like to see engine failures. I think most of these were from valve failures though so if they fixed the valve problems most of the catastrophic engine failure will go away. It seems like the valve problems are going away so maybe they fixed that problem.
Antifreeze needs to be tested often using the proper kit.. There is more than one available, and even the dealers sometimes get it wrong. This actually has a message that pops up on the DIC.
The fuel filter needs to drained IIRC every 3 weeks
Ford STRONGLY recommends in writing that you use their PM 22 fuel additive religiously. Some have even had to sign a paper about this on delivery.
And Ford seems to have forgotten how to make a radiator that doesn't leak. And they are VERY proud of the replacements that they sell. Which still leak.
Some incorrect information provided here by Huntindog:
1. Fuel filter does not need to be drained every 3 weeks per Fords Owners guide supplement.
2. Ford does not require PM22 per Fords Owners guide supplement. I know of no one who had to sign a document including my own purchasing experience.
3. Antifreeze is mainly tested for Nitrates because a lot of quick lube shops tend to top off the radiater fluid and chances are they will top off with the incorrect antifreeze. ELC coolant testing is a common practice including CAT.
Wouldn't be topping it off if it hadn't leaked out of the radiator.
BeerCan wrote:
Come on man really? That is a STRONGLY recommends?Take Care of your Fuel Injection System
Diesel fuel quality is critical for reliable engine operation. Motorcraft® Cetane Booster & Performance Improver, PM-22-A (U.S.) / PM-22-B
(Canada) can be added to improve fuel economy, starting ability, and reduce engine wear.
The water separator should be drained monthly or when the "Water in Fuel Lamp" illuminates.
Biodiesel fuel must not exceed 20% (B20). To avoid cold weather fuel gelling, add 6 oz. of Motorcraft® Anti-Gel & Performance Improver
PM-23-A (U.S.) / PM-23-B (Canada) to every new tank of fuel.
As to why they make you sign it, I imagine it is because the maintenance issues are greater with a diesel. This document is covering the things you need to take care of to keep the truck running correctly. People coming from the gasoline world are used to "gas & go"
FWIW I did not get that document to sign.
FishOnOne wrote:Huntindog wrote:Turtle n Peeps wrote:Ford also has some maintainence requirements that the other two do not..fivecodys wrote:
I'm starting to 'kick the tires' and I really like the F-350 Ford.
What are you guys hearing about their new 6.7L PowerStroke?
Did they get it right this time?
Thanks in advance for your comments.
Bill
Define "get it right." :)
The good is, this engine is waaaaaaaaaaay better than the 6.0 or 6.4 Nav engines. All in all they seem to be a pretty good engine.
The bad?...........well:
Lots and lots and lots of turbo problems. This one is very troubling because it seems as if Ford can't fix the problem.
Some HPFP and fuel system problems. Not too many of these but BIG, BIG bucks to fix! :E And most of the time Ford will blame you and you will have to pay for it. :E
Quite a few valve problems.
More than I like to see engine failures. I think most of these were from valve failures though so if they fixed the valve problems most of the catastrophic engine failure will go away. It seems like the valve problems are going away so maybe they fixed that problem.
Antifreeze needs to be tested often using the proper kit.. There is more than one available, and even the dealers sometimes get it wrong. This actually has a message that pops up on the DIC.
The fuel filter needs to drained IIRC every 3 weeks
Ford STRONGLY recommends in writing that you use their PM 22 fuel additive religiously. Some have even had to sign a paper about this on delivery.
And Ford seems to have forgotten how to make a radiator that doesn't leak. And they are VERY proud of the replacements that they sell. Which still leak.
Some incorrect information provided here by Huntindog:
1. Fuel filter does not need to be drained every 3 weeks per Fords Owners guide supplement.
2. Ford does not require PM22 per Fords Owners guide supplement. I know of no one who had to sign a document including my own purchasing experience.
3. Antifreeze is mainly tested for Nitrates because a lot of quick lube shops tend to top off the radiater fluid and chances are they will top off with the incorrect antifreeze. ELC coolant testing is a common practice including CAT.
Take Care of your Fuel Injection System
Diesel fuel quality is critical for reliable engine operation. Motorcraft® Cetane Booster & Performance Improver, PM-22-A (U.S.) / PM-22-B
(Canada) can be added to improve fuel economy, starting ability, and reduce engine wear.
The water separator should be drained monthly or when the "Water in Fuel Lamp" illuminates.
Biodiesel fuel must not exceed 20% (B20). To avoid cold weather fuel gelling, add 6 oz. of Motorcraft® Anti-Gel & Performance Improver
PM-23-A (U.S.) / PM-23-B (Canada) to every new tank of fuel.
