Forum Discussion
80 Replies
otrfun wrote:
1. Toyota has offered an OEM supercharger for their 1/2 ton 5.7 V8 since 2007. It boosts the stock engine from 381 HP/401 ft. lbs. to 500+ HP/550 ft. lbs of torque--equivalent torque specs to the 5.0 Cummins. Absolutely no engine or frame issues with this combo. No reason to believe there would be any issues with the 5.0 Cummins. FWIW, The OEM Toyota factory warranty still remains in effect with the supercharger as long as a Toyota dealer installs the supercharger.
Cracked frames on the 1st gen Dodge chassis showed up towing much heavier loads than a Toyota can handle. Plenty of reasons to think the light duty Toyota frame isn't up to up to towing big heavy trailer with either engine.
2. How can Toyota (or Nissan) seriously compete in the 3/4 ton market when they're not competitive in the 1/2 ton market? Big 3 buyers are pretty finicky and very brand faithful--especially in the macho, Heavy-Duty market What could Toyota and Nissan offer to compete head-on with the Big 3, big displacement, high-torque (850+ ft. lb.) diesels?
Looks like your looking for a argument.
Never said anything about Nissan. What I said was quote;
"IMO Toyota knows at some point they will have too compete in the HD pickup market. The 3/4 ton is the most popular of the HD pickups so naturally they would start at that point."
Toyota would like to compete in the 3/4 ton truck market. There is a place for a 3/4 ton HD pickup with a 300-500 new gen diesel that can show lower fuel usage rates and less maintenance and less up front costs.
Truck owners in the 3/4 ton market now have either the huge 750-850 ft lb diesel or a high hp smallblock gas guzzler at high rpms at high noise levels. IMO a 300/500 diesel would have a place in a HD 3/4 ton for a start.- Otrfun , I did not copy and post into the Quote section., so yes that is what the V8 Diesel will be replacing, the V10 in Chassis Cabs . The Pickup V10's have gone the way of the DoDo.
RobertRyan wrote:
RobertRyan, interesting how you changed my original post to suit your needs (RobertRyan's edited version of otrfun's post is above; see original below). I never made the above post! Any particular reason why? Big difference between consumer and commercial grade products. I stand by my original post (see below) before you changed it.ortfun wrote:
They are the mainstay of Class C and gas powered Class A's
V10 not offered in Commercial Truck engines anymore
Obviously the Class A and Class C version you're referring to above are "chassis" cabs manufactured for typical use and later resale by commercial entities only. They are then heavily modified, then sold on the retail market as a product of the commercial entity--NOT the manufacturer of the chassis. Retail consumers have not been able to purchase V10 "pickup trucks" with a cab and bed for a number of years now.
My original post:otrfun wrote:
FWIW, V10's aren't offered in consumer-grade 1/2 - 3/4 ton trucks anymore. Gotta wonder why . . .
And your point?- Curse you Toyota. I like the Tundras. So much in fact that I said had they offered an hd diesel I would have bought one. Now when I bought my Dodge (which I truly love) I said it may very well be the last truck I buy. Looks like I may eat my words.
Skyhammer wrote:
My engine has a heat exchanger to cool the engine.
The 4.5 engine in the Toyota. Landcruiser 200 is the basis for the Yannar marine diesel.ortfun wrote:
V10 not offered in Commercial Truck engines anymore
They are the mainstay of Class C and gas powered Class A'sbmanning wrote:
Well put.
FWIW, it's not as if Toyota tried and failed to compete in the HD pickup market. They were savvy, realized that it's a very small market segment that is already dominated by a very loyal (myopic?) demographic, and wisely didn't waste time and money engineering a 3/4 or 1-ton.
We on this forum are huge fans of HD pickups so it's very easy to forget that it's virtually the definition of a niche market. I don't know the exact numbers (perhaps someone does and will post them) but 3/4-1ton pickups are a pretty small percentage of overall pickup sales.
As far as "competing" in the half-ton segment, it depends upon how we define "compete." They don't compete as far as sales numbers go but they were the only manufacturer on board from day 1 with standardized tow ratings. Toyota bashers love to gloss over that one, just like the anti-Toyota crowd ignores the fact that they also put out a drivetrain 7 model years ago that still is competitive with other half-ton offerings.
It may come across like I'm coming down on Toyota, but all I'm doing is acknowledging the reality of the marketplace. Personally, I think the Tundra is one of the better 1/2 ton trucks on the market. The sad reality is, being better doesn't always equate to "success". Yes, Toyota and other foreign-car manufacturers turned the American car market upside down and redefined the marketplace during the last 30-35 years. The Big 3 had to play catch-up. The end result, we all benefit with better products and competitive pricing.
However, this is not the case with the 1/2 ton pickup truck market. Toyota gave it their all with an arguably, better product in 2007, but a perfect storm comprised of the economic crash, $4 fuel prices, and huge marketing hurdles, had them fall far short of their original lofty goals. The end result is Toyota is now taking a very conservative, almost timid approach to the 1/2 ton market. The 2014 Tundra, with only cosmetic updates after 7 years, is an example. My whole point is a lot of folks simply assume the best product always wins--that everything is objective in the marketplace--it's far from it. Truck owners/buyers are extremely biased, as they should be--because we're dealing with with a product, that for many, makes a personal statement. For many truck buyers, Toyota and Nissan trucks are simply unable to make that subjective, personal statement. It is what is.- FWIW, it's not as if Toyota tried and failed to compete in the HD pickup market. They were savvy, realized that it's a very small market segment that is already dominated by a very loyal (myopic?) demographic, and wisely didn't waste time and money engineering a 3/4 or 1-ton.
We on this forum are huge fans of HD pickups so it's very easy to forget that it's virtually the definition of a niche market. I don't know the exact numbers (perhaps someone does and will post them) but 3/4-1ton pickups are a pretty small percentage of overall pickup sales.
As far as "competing" in the half-ton segment, it depends upon how we define "compete." They don't compete as far as sales numbers go but they were the only manufacturer on board from day 1 with standardized tow ratings. Toyota bashers love to gloss over that one, just like the anti-Toyota crowd ignores the fact that they also put out a drivetrain 7 model years ago that still is competitive with other half-ton offerings. JIMNLIN wrote:
1. Toyota has offered an OEM supercharger for their 1/2 ton 5.7 V8 since 2007. It boosts the stock engine from 381 HP/401 ft. lbs. to 500+ HP/550 ft. lbs of torque--equivalent torque specs to the 5.0 Cummins. Absolutely no engine or frame issues with this combo. No reason to believe there would be any issues with the 5.0 Cummins. FWIW, The OEM Toyota factory warranty still remains in effect with the supercharger as long as a Toyota dealer installs the supercharger.Don wrote:
Then add the fact that it is rated at 300HP and 500-600 torque. That's a lot of engine for a 1500 truck.
A engine with 500 ft lbs especially the diesel engine is too for much for any 1/2 ton trucks frame.
Remember when Dodge dropped the 160/400 5.9 Cummins in the 1st gen 3/4 ton trucks. Cracked frame issues popped up pretty quick after a few K miles when pulling heavy trailers.
IMO Toyota knows at some point they will have too compete in the HD pickup market. The 3/4 ton is the most popular of the HD pickups so naturally they would start at that point.
There are lots of off shore parts made for the 5.9 Cummins according to my area Cummins dealer anyway. That doesn't mean the OEM part at assembly is a off shore manufacturered part.
2. How can Toyota (or Nissan) seriously compete in the 3/4 ton market when they're not competitive in the 1/2 ton market? Big 3 buyers are pretty finicky and very brand faithful--especially in the macho, Heavy-Duty market :) What could Toyota and Nissan offer to compete head-on with the Big 3, big displacement, high-torque (850+ ft. lb.) diesels?RobertRyan wrote:
FWIW, V10's aren't offered in consumer-grade 1/2 - 3/4 ton trucks anymore. Gotta wonder why . . .otrfun wrote:
I get your point that the 5.0 Cummins, in some respects, may be more at home in a 3/4 ton truck. But, the reality is, a 5.0 Cummins 3/4 ton would be dead on arrival if it tried to compete with the larger 6.7++ liter 3/4 ton diesel offerings from the Big 3. It would be labeled a wannabe and wimpy.
Cummins in its advertising is saying this would be a great replacement for a V10 gas engine..Hmmm what engine could they be referring too?
And your point?
