2017 F-450 Super Ike Gaunlet

Me Again wrote:

Threebigfords wrote:
Did you happen to notice the THICKNESS of those springs on the F450? If you had been paying attention you would have seen how much thicker they are than your Ram's and even the F350 MAX TOW. Leaf count means nothing.

So why do so many need air bags then?

In general there are MANY 250/350 SRW and 350/450 DRW trucks driving around with what I would say light loads are AZZ low, not LEVEL, AZZ low.

Is it because they want a soft ride???

A couple we met at DRV had a F450 with bags and his DRV was a 32' unit. He said he HAD to add bags with the rear low and bouncing.

Me Again wrote:

Threebigfords wrote:
Did you happen to notice the THICKNESS of those springs on the F450? If you had been paying attention you would have seen how much thicker they are than your Ram's and even the F350 MAX TOW. Leaf count means nothing.

So why do so many need air bags then?

I think that is a pretty easy answer, the same reason they are putting them on the 3500 Ram OEM.

Threebigfords wrote:
Did you happen to notice the THICKNESS of those springs on the F450? If you had been paying attention you would have seen how much thicker they are than your Ram's and even the F350 MAX TOW. Leaf count means nothing.

So why do so many need air bags then?

Seems like Ford has been using a lot of these for a number of years.

I think we've already established the #9100 RAWR is a product of staying under the 14k Gross Vehicle Weight Rating and nothing more


"Don't think that has anything to do with 14K. If I take 5,200# front axle factory weight and add to 9,750# RAWR that is WELL over 14K."


Really? the Ram 3500 DRW weighs almost a thousand pounds less than the F450, yet both have the same 14k GVWR and you see no correlation between that and the "on paper" payload and axle ratings?

Does this help??

"It is not that the axle rating was lowered but the truck got heavier applying the J2807 ... result is adding an extra 400 lbs in base curb weight & people and the lowering of payload 150 lbs. from 5,450 lbs. to 5,300 lbs .... 9,650 - 550 = 9,100 lbs for the F450 vs the F350 DRW rating of 9,650 lbs."

Did you happen to notice the THICKNESS of those springs on the F450? If you had been paying attention you would have seen how much thicker they are than your Ram's and even the F350 MAX TOW. Leaf count means nothing.

So yet again you failed to name any of these "many" components that are smaller on the F450 than the 3500.

Threebigfords wrote:
Smaller components than a 3500? Name ONE.

Mind you, this comparison is based upon my 2014 Ram 3500 parked next to a brand new 2016 F-450 parked on a dealer lot here in my hometown.

Not the new aluminum body 2017.

This 2016 had camper package added, as well as snow plow prep package, so I expected to see some good figures for payload, axles and such.

I was wrong.

Rear axle weight rating was 750 pounds heavier on my Ram.
9750 vs 9000 (taken off the labels inside the driver's door both vehicles).

Payload rating for hauling a truck camper was 600 pounds more for my Ram.
4600 pounds vs 4000 pounds on F-450. (These figures coming directly from the factory placed paper's in the glove boxes of both trucks).

The F-450 had a two leaf main rear spring setup, with upper overload spring. My Ram has three leaf main springs in rear, also with upper overload.

All in all, I was disappointed. And this got me angry, because really, the F-450 should be a much more capable vehicle, and it's just not there in the ratings cause Ford does not want it.

Now hearsay has it the new 2017 F-450 now has 9,900 pound rear axle rating. A good improvement, but gosh, wasn't the Spicer axles on the 2015-2016's derated to 9,000 pounds from what they build as a 14,0000 pound axle????????

So I remain frustrated, but intensely interested in the new F-450's. The potential is surely there.

"I think we've already established the #9100 RAWR is a product of staying under the 14k Gross Vehicle Weight Rating and nothing more"


Don't think that has anything to do with 14K. If I take 5,200# front axle factory weight and add to 9,750# RAWR that is WELL over 14K.

I can't tell you anything specific, seems like the front springs looked smaller or at least the same. Actually when I said Smaller I was mentally thinking about the BD F350 on a lift fixing an air bag in LasVegas at a Dyno event in May. Truck pic below. Actually very BAD AZZ!

Well old school 11 RAM with 4,500# pin in pic. NO air bags. It only had 12,300# GVWR. Don't remember the rear axle rating.

Yes it's nice to see improvements on all trucks.

Cummins12V98 wrote:

Threebigfords wrote:

jus2shy wrote:
OK, has nobody noticed that in the night vision shots, you can see a glow emanating from the engine bay through the wheel well? I almost wonder if the pipes are glowing red with the tow test they're putting down. I wouldn't be surprised, but they certainly are wringing her out. It also shows that They're meeting the SAE J standard for towing. The truck slowed down by the top of the hill, but it maintained above the minimum 35mph speed it needed to. But it did slowdown at max GCWR.

Good on Ford. The 450 is finally the monster it should be.

?? FINALLY ??

I beg to differ. The F450 has been a monster again since 2015 when they went back to the 10 lug axles. Sure there was a hiatus from 2011-2014 when it was a glorified F350, but that ended a couple model years ago. Anyone who thinks the 2015+ F450's are not the true towing kings for any 5th wheel RV out there, have either never driven one, or never looked under one.

I was actually a little disappointed that they dropped the S130 axle in 2017, but I guess I can understand why with the new aluminum M300 weight savings, but I'd rather have the 12.2" Dia gears from the S130 personally.

And for those saying the F450 may have a stout rear axle but is still limited by the tires/springs?....Really? Where is this supposed weak link? Is it the G-rated 19.5" tires that come stock rated for 15000lbs on the rear?? Or the extra thick leaf springs unique to the F450?? Oh I know, it must be the massive brakes that come on the F450 right??

All the naysayers should just be happy that Ford continues to push the technology/capabilities forward on these trucks, it will eventually be adopted by the competition providing better trucks no matter which brand you choose.

Not to pop your bubble but every single F450 I have seen has air bags towing a DRV because the AZZ would be dragging otherwise. The low 9,100# RAWR explains it.

Just look at any 450 side by side with a RAM 3500 you will be surprised that they are very similar. The rear axle was larger in the 450 but many components are smaller on the 450.

Nice they have improved their ratings.

Smaller components than a 3500? Name ONE.

Air bags...you mean just like the leveling air bags that come on the Ram?? Not sure what your comparing there, yeah it's great it's a Ram factory option, but still needed on the Rams to maintain ride height at higher weights.

I think we've already established the #9100 RAWR is a product of staying under the 14k Gross Vehicle Weight Rating and nothing more.

F450 has 10 lug nuts per wheel.... That means it's a real truck...

Isn't that how trucks are judged on this forum? Count the lug nuts...