My camper has the Lippert electric stabilizer jacks where both rear jacks lower with the press of a single button. Pressure is not applied to the trailer until both rear jacks have made contact with the ground. The front jacks opperate the same way. Has anyone used the Bal lock arm stabilizer bars with these jacks. How well did it help to stabilize the camper?

Same idea as the JT Strongarms I have on mine. Best mod I ever did. They eliminated just about all the movement in my tt, even with the kids running around. The JTs look a little beefier though.

plasticmaster wrote:My camper has the Lippert electric stabilizer jacks where both rear jacks lower with the press of a single button. Pressure is not applied to the trailer until both rear jacks have made contact with the ground. The front jacks opperate the same way. Has anyone used the Bal lock arm stabilizer bars with these jacks. How well did it help to stabilize the camper?I have the Lippert jacks. The BAL Lock system will work with them as will the JTs.I will not use them on my TT though.The Lippert jacks with their equal pressure design makes it impossible to rack the frame.Installing a lock arm system would eliminate the Lipperts equal pressure system.Since I always boondock and my jack legs often are sitting on different soil densities, that Lippert feature appeals to me a great deal.If I camped in campgrounds with hard surface pads, I could see the advantage of the lock arm systems.

Would these Bal lock arm bars work better with my existing Lippert electric jacks or would they work better with manual scissor jacks? I ask this because I'm considering installing manual scissor jacks as well.

I put the BAL stabilizers on my TT with the same electric Lippert system you have. They didn't work at all (or very little). They worked great on my old TT with manual scissor jacks.The problem is the carriage underneath the trailer slides to do the self adjusting part. The BAL arms don't do anything to stop this, and this is what is causing the trailer to move. I am very disappointed in the Lippert self leveling electric system. It does it job in supporting the corners of the trailer, but does little to stop the side to side movement when you are walking around. The only way to solve this problem is to get the electric jack system that has a motor for each jack at each corner of the trailer.Here is a video of the carriage sliding, it moves whether the BAL arms are used or not. Lippert self leveling problem

tll wrote:I put the BAL stabilizers on my TT with the same electric Lippert system you have. They didn't work at all (or very little). They worked great on my old TT with manual scissor jacks.The problem is the carriage underneath the trailer slides to do the self adjusting part. The BAL arms don't do anything to stop this, and this is what is causing the trailer to move. I am very disappointed in the Lippert self leveling electric system. It does it job in supporting the corners of the trailer, but does little to stop the side to side movement when you are walking around. The only way to solve this problem is to get the electric jack system that has a motor for each jack at each corner of the trailer.Here is a video of the carriage sliding, it moves whether the BAL arms are used or not. Lippert self leveling problemThat video is a joke. The inside channel is rattling around loose inside the outer channel.The jacks are obviously not even close to being as tight as they should be.It was staged that way on purpose for some reason.Probably by the following video, which is of the Ultra Fab jacks... IOW, they have an agenda, which is selling their jacks. Pretty sad.But having owned an Ultra Fab TJ for about 20 minutes before it broke,,, I can understand why they stoop to underhanded fake tactics to sell their junk

Bal lock arm stabilizer bars? | Good Sam Community

Huntindog
Explorer
Oct 26, 2017
Not sure where to start, so I will respond inside your post.

myredracer wrote:
jbjuices wrote:
Question on the Lippert system...on the back jacks, one side goes down first, hits the ground and then the other side goes down. It's brand new, so wondering if this should be fixed, or just how some systems work??
That is normal and how they work.

The electric stab. jacks should be run down only until they are snug and stable. TT frames/I-beams are designed to have a camber in them which means that they are a bit lower at the front and rear compared to where the axles are.I know a bit about camber, having researched this with JBarca when he was repairing his sagging frame. I even have pics of my TT on the production line that show the location of the welds that induce the camber. I did a lot of research to understand this, and even did some cambering of my own in my garage, welding beads on lengths of steel to see how it changed the shape, and properties of the piece.
You have it backwards. The welding beads are on the top of the frame rail. You cannot see them as the they are covered by the TT body.
This welding causes the frame to shrink in the area of the weld.
This shrinking causes the rear of the frame to be higher, NOT lower!
Another thing happens to metal when you do this. It gets springy.
The light pieces I experimented on felt lively and stronger compared to identical unwelded pieces. On my TT, and others I have seen,
the cambering welds are placed about where the axle hangers are located. I am unsure of the logic for this on the front portion of the frame, but I have never seen cambering beads on the bottom of a frame where my logic would put them Tightening them down more than needed can cause the frame to bend in the opposite direction causing racking of the superstructure above, twisting of the frame and possibly damage. As I mentioned previously, some frames flex a lot more than others - especially the ones with I-beams made from 3 pieces of sheet steel welded together.These concerns are valid... for traditional scissor jacks. Not for the lippert system. Just think about the front jacks for a moment: what happens when the hitch is on the ball or tongue jack?
All of the weight is at the very front of the frame!
So tightening the front jacks as tight as they will go, cannot impart any more force on the frame that the TJ or ball does. Even if they were strong enough to lift the front of the trailer completely off of the ball or TJ... It is still the same amount of force! And no,
they are not that strong.

Even our HD frame flexes more than I would have ever expected if I tighten the jacks any more than necessary. The dead bolt on our entry door would not work sometimes in first couple of years. Dealer claimed nothing wrong. Finally figured out the deadbolt and strike plate had insufficient clearance and by tightening the stab jacks even a little bit too much, it prevented the dead bolt from working. I filed some metal off the strike plate and that fixed it.

Do you have the Lippert system? It doesn't sound like it.

What could happen if a frame flexes too much? If your superstructure is aluminum-framed, welds can potentially fail like in the photo from a TT we used to have. Many TTs, esp. the ultralites, are built with the lightest, thinnest and least substantial materials to save weight and cost and you need to treat them accordingly.

I would never, ever own a TT with Lippert's auto-leveling Ground Control system. And if your frame ever breaks for any reason, it is always your fault, never Lippert's. Love their sales pitch "It can take up to an hour to get an RV level with manual jacks, chocks and wedges." It would be interesting to know how much these jacks wiggle around, esp. being oriented fore/aft.
Huntindog
Explorer
Oct 26, 2017
plasticmaster wrote:
Huntindog, thank you for your research and explanation on what you found today with your camper. I think most folks have had the same experience as me in that during the walk thru, the dealer instructs us to lower these electric jacks until both feet make contact with the ground. Then allow it to put pressure on the frame for just a couple of seconds and then STOP. My question to you is are you concerned that by running them until the circuit breaker clicks that you may be doing damage to the jack, the motor, or the camper's electrical system? I understand from your explanation that it's impossible to rack the camper frame since equal pressure is being applied to both legs.

Also, I'm curious as to what Lippert recommends on the proper use of these jacks. I may try to reach out to them. If I do, I'll report back what they say.
I have been doing this since 2009, without issue. And I camp a lot more than most.

If you stop and think about it, what happens when the hitch is on the ball or tongue jack?
All of the weight is at the very front of the frame!
So tightening the front jacks as tight as they will go, cannot impart any more force on the frame that the TJ or ball does. Even if they were strong enough to lift the front of the trailer completely off of the ball or TJ... It is still the same amount of force! And no,
they are not that strong.
plasticmaster
Explorer
Oct 25, 2017
Huntindog, thank you for your research and explanation on what you found today with your camper. I think most folks have had the same experience as me in that during the walk thru, the dealer instructs us to lower these electric jacks until both feet make contact with the ground. Then allow it to put pressure on the frame for just a couple of seconds and then STOP. My question to you is are you concerned that by running them until the circuit breaker clicks that you may be doing damage to the jack, the motor, or the camper's electrical system? I understand from your explanation that it's impossible to rack the camper frame since equal pressure is being applied to both legs.

Also, I'm curious as to what Lippert recommends on the proper use of these jacks. I may try to reach out to them. If I do, I'll report back what they say.
myredracer
Explorer II
Oct 25, 2017
jbjuices wrote:
Question on the Lippert system...on the back jacks, one side goes down first, hits the ground and then the other side goes down. It's brand new, so wondering if this should be fixed, or just how some systems work??
That is normal and how they work.

The electric stab. jacks should be run down only until they are snug and stable. TT frames/I-beams are designed to have a camber in them which means that they are a bit lower at the front and rear compared to where the axles are. Tightening them down more than needed can cause the frame to bend in the opposite direction causing racking of the superstructure above, twisting of the frame and possibly damage. As I mentioned previously, some frames flex a lot more than others - especially the ones with I-beams made from 3 pieces of sheet steel welded together.

Even our HD frame flexes more than I would have ever expected if I tighten the jacks any more than necessary. The dead bolt on our entry door would not work sometimes in first couple of years. Dealer claimed nothing wrong. Finally figured out the deadbolt and strike plate had insufficient clearance and by tightening the stab jacks even a little bit too much, it prevented the dead bolt from working. I filed some metal off the strike plate and that fixed it.

What could happen if a frame flexes too much? If your superstructure is aluminum-framed, welds can potentially fail like in the photo from a TT we used to have. Many TTs, esp. the ultralites, are built with the lightest, thinnest and least substantial materials to save weight and cost and you need to treat them accordingly.

I would never, ever own a TT with Lippert's auto-leveling Ground Control system. And if your frame ever breaks for any reason, it is always your fault, never Lippert's. Love their sales pitch "It can take up to an hour to get an RV level with manual jacks, chocks and wedges." It would be interesting to know how much these jacks wiggle around, esp. being oriented fore/aft.
jbjuices
Explorer
Oct 25, 2017
This is great info because I was in the mindset that you stop after putting a little pressure on. I have a 2018 Open Range and had the Lippert electric stabilizer jacks installed, but it also comes with the stabilizing arms to tighten down for even more stabilization. I worked it down to where I put little pressure on and tightened down the bars and was surprised by having barely any movement. Now with what your saying, I can increase pressure and have NO movement...SWEET!!

Question on the Lippert system...on the back jacks, one side goes down first, hits the ground and then the other side goes down. It's brand new, so wondering if this should be fixed, or just how some systems work??
Huntindog
Explorer
Oct 25, 2017
Today I went out to my TT were it has been parked since my last trip, on my RV concrete slab. As always I had run the jacks down until the circuit breaker clicked them off. It has been there since Sept. 29th.
I first tried to push the TT sideways in the front. Zero movement, no sound. Then I tried the rear. Zero movement, no sound. I then loosened the jacks in the front quite a bit. I could not get any sound , but did get a tiny amount (less than 1/16") of sideways movement, the TJ was down, so that helped. I then went to the rear and loosened them up a lot. Bingo. I could now recreate the video with movement and sound, if I had a mind to.

I think what is happening is a lack of understanding on how these jacks work.

For years we have been told that the jacks on out TTs were not for leveling, just for stabilizing, and to not put too much pressure on them.

This was for good reason, as the factory scissors jacks worked independently, and made it very easy to rack the frame. As any experienced TT owner knows, this will cause problems with doors sticking or not latching.

That is not a concern with the Lippert jack system. Although they do not level the TT even though many call them self leveling, what they do is keep EQUAL PRESSURE on each set of legs.

This means that it is impossible to rack, or damage the frame. So you can put as much pressure on the legs as the motor can produce with no ill effects. In fact, that is how it works best.

I said previously that a small amount of movement was normal. I said this because I had seen it in camp occasionally. But as I always boondock off the beaten path, my jacks (any type) are prone to settling. That is not any jacks fault.

But my test just showed that when on a solid concrete surface, there is no movement, when the jacks are as tight as they will go.
myredracer
Explorer II
Oct 25, 2017
plasticmaster wrote:
Has anyone used the Bal lock arm stabilizer bars with these jacks. How well did it help to stabilize the camper?

You need stabilizer "struts" for these incorrectly termed electric "stabilizer" jacks. :R The strut things work great! My DW can tell when I haven't tightened them up when the jacks are down. I only mounted a pair on the rear because I don't think a second up front will help as much for us. The front of a TT also has the tongue jack which provides some degree of vertical stabilizing that helps a bit. Nice thing about the BAL struts is you can buy just a pair of them.

I mounted the upper ends of the struts to the underside of the bumper and that way they also give some fore/aft reduction in movement in addition to vertical and lateral. I used a piece of 2x2 steel tubing and bolted that to the bumper. Not an easy job to fish the bolts 4' inside the bumper.

While doing this project, I mounted a piece of 8" x 8" x 3/4" HDPE to the stab. jack feet. This adds more stability when jacks are down and don't have to bother with planks or "lego" blocks. I mounted the lower end of the struts to the foot pads because it's more stable that way than using the horizontal bolts. If you mount to the actual stab. jack, I found that there was too much play.

Note well that if using any brand of stabilizer strut, you must get Lippert's #314597 "jack adapter kit" as in the photo below. If you don't use these, the strut arms will interfere with the stab. jacks when in the retracted position (the strengthening pieces at a 45 degree angle).

I tried a set of the aluminum stacker jacks with the BAL struts in place and found that the stacker jacks did not make a noticeable improvement and got rid of them on CL. (The lego blocks are only under the stab. jack pads to see if having the pads higher off the ground would help - it didn't.)

How well the BAL braces will work will depend partly on how strong your frame is and it's length. In our case, our TT has a very strong frame (8" tall I-beams) and is 29' long overall. Some frames flex a lot and sometimes floors are weak which adds to sensation of movement. You might find it helps to use a pair of jack just ahead of the axles. If you have surplus $$ to spend, go ahead and add another pair of the BAL braces to the front jacks. If you do, you'll find it's harder to reach the tightening bolts tho. BAL X-chocks do a pretty good job of reducing fore/aft movement and should get a set if you don't have them already. For even more reduction in movement, Torklift's Glowsteps cut motion from walking in/out quite a bit.

If you ever want to see how poor a job the electric stab jacks do of "stabilizing", go watch the jacks move around when someone goes up and down your entry steps. They're a poor design by Lippert. They could build them better but there'd be no benefit to Lippert. I know one forum member who added some strengthening to his. I believe the electric stab jacks UF sells are the same ones as Lippert.
Huntindog
Explorer
Oct 25, 2017
plasticmaster wrote:
Huntindog wrote:
tll wrote:
Huntindog wrote:
tll wrote:
I put the BAL stabilizers on my TT with the same electric Lippert system you have. They didn't work at all (or very little). They worked great on my old TT with manual scissor jacks.The problem is the carriage underneath the trailer slides to do the self adjusting part. The BAL arms don't do anything to stop this, and this is what is causing the trailer to move.
I am very disappointed in the Lippert self leveling electric system. It does it job in supporting the corners of the trailer, but does little to stop the side to side movement when you are walking around. The only way to solve this problem is to get the electric jack system that has a motor for each jack at each corner of the trailer.
Here is a video of the carriage sliding, it moves whether the BAL arms are used or not.
Lippert self leveling problem

That video is a joke. The inside channel is rattling around loose inside the outer channel.
The jacks are obviously not even close to being as tight as they should be.

It was staged that way on purpose for some reason.
Probably by the following video, which is of the Ultra Fab jacks... IOW, they have an agenda, which is selling their jacks. Pretty sad.

But having owned an Ultra Fab TJ for about 20 minutes before it broke,,, I can understand why they stoop to underhanded fake tactics to sell their junk

I took that video myself, I can assure you that the jacks were sufficiently loaded. They were the rear jacks.This is the whole problem with the Lippert system. When one side of the trailer is loaded, like you walk to that side, that side sinks down, raising the other side and causing the loose channel. This happens no matter how tight the jacks are set. The whole problem is that channel must slide from side to side to do the self leveling thing. When you walk in the trailer the trailer slides on the channel.
I have owned this system since 2009. I am calling B.S. In the video you can not only see the channel moving up and down, but you can here it rattling as well. That is impossible it the jacks are tight.
I have never heard mine making that racket.
And your side to side movement is severe. Once again a sign that the jacks are not tight enough.

Even with tight jacks, there will be some movement. It has to do with a compromise that must be made to get the self leveling. IMO, that is a worthwhile compromise.

But once again, that video is NOT what will happen when the jacks are as tight as they should be. It was staged, pure and simple

I'm getting the exact same results as tll and what he shows in the video. I loaded the jacks until they were extremely tight. I had my son, who is only 12 years old, push on the camper while I watched the channel move. It looked just like the video. Now I understand why the camper rocks and shakes so much with the slightest movement such as my kids rolling over in bed at night. I'll be installing manual scissor jacks like what was on my old camper. They performed much better. Hopefully that will help. If I'm still not satisfied, I'll also instal the Bal lock arms.
Move side to side? Some of that is normal. The up and down along with the rattle noise is NOT.
Huntindog
Explorer
Oct 25, 2017
GrandpaKip wrote:
Gee, Mr. Dog, that’s pretty bad, basically calling 2 people liars. Could it be that their systems aren’t quite the same as yours, since yours is older? Or for some other reason that is reasonable?
I don’t think collusion fits in this case.
I have the Lippert system. I run the jacks down until they shut off, from the breaker tripping. If you know how this system works, and run it tight, what is happening in the video will not happen.
I Know a LOT about these jacks as due to an unfortunate incident,(human error) I spent quite some time taking them apart and straightening them.
GrandpaKip
Explorer II
Oct 25, 2017
Gee, Mr. Dog, that’s pretty bad, basically calling 2 people liars. Could it be that their systems aren’t quite the same as yours, since yours is older? Or for some other reason that is reasonable?
I don’t think collusion fits in this case.