Big Popups? HW296 Alternatives?

Ralph Cramden wrote:

Adam H wrote:

Useless Information: An Avalon, Niagara, HW296, HW277 will all have much more room than a 23' Hybrid. Try a 30' Hybrid and compare because when an Avalon or a HW296 is opened, it's 30'.

If you truly believe that, more power to you LOL.

I've had both, have you?
The triple bunk in my 02 Keystone were cramped to say the least. An adult or older kid would have a lot of trouble sleeping in those beds. My Avalon has more floor space than the Keystone I had.

The HW296 and others like it have 16 feet of unobstructed floor space when opened, can you say that about a 23 foot TT? Remember, we are talking about high walled PUPs not little shoe boxes.

I do believe a lot of PUP owners (such as myself) have gone the PUP route out of choice not necessity. I've had PUPs, MHs and TTs, small and large and made a decision to go back to a PUP. I could afford and store any type of RV I wanted so you have to choose PUP camping. If you are looking for new PUPs to save money, you will not find it.

O.P. - Like I said earlier, there is a strong bias against PUP's here. I think you probably have figured that out by now though.

Adam

Ralph Cramden wrote:

Adam H wrote:

Useless Information: An Avalon, Niagara, HW296, HW277 will all have much more room than a 23' Hybrid. Try a 30' Hybrid and compare because when an Avalon or a HW296 is opened, it's 30'.

If you truly believe that, more power to you LOL.

Unfortunately that's not entirely true as the highwall pop ups are only 7' wide, making them much more cramped than a shorter, wider travel trailer. Then the box is still only 12' or 14' long since the beds take up ~50% of the length. You'll have much more walking room in a TT.

My Jay Flight 19BH was 22.5' long, my Pop Ups (Rockwood 2290 and Starcraft 2406) were about 23' long when opened. They were much more cramped than the Jay Flight Travel Trailer due to their narrow body width, and lack of walking space due to the 12' boxes. My beds in the Jay Flight 19BH were stacked while beds of the Pop Ups weren't obviously. The bunkhouse design opens up space, which can't be done in a tent based pop up.

We also had 4 beds in the Jay Flight 19BH, sleeping 6 people comfortably, or 7 people tightly. My Starcraft could only sleep 5 comfortably or 6 tightly, with the Rockwood sleeping only 4 comfortably or 5 tightly (on longer narrow bench seat) because the dinette bed was (about 5.5' long, 38" wide) not usable as a bed except for small children.

As far as forest river all I can speak for is our first time experience but we never had any problems with our hw296. We only keep it for 2 years, but it was 10 years old and never had a problem. There was a lot of room for storage right inside the door.

Adam H wrote:

Useless Information: An Avalon, Niagara, HW296, HW277 will all have much more room than a 23' Hybrid. Try a 30' Hybrid and compare because when an Avalon or a HW296 is opened, it's 30'.

If you truly believe that, more power to you LOL.

We recently sold our hw296 and returned to a 5er. They are hard to find compared to a normal pop up. 16’ box closed, I think it was 27’ open. Our was an 08, bought for 8k, almost exactly the same as the new 15 model for 17k. As to needing a 1 ton if those people are serious they must have that as an automatic response in there settings. I pulled with an 05 2500, it was way overkill but very easy to pull.

We loved our popup, we had it for 9 years, and spent 2 weeks in it every year, but numerous weekends. It was a 12ft box, and we slept 8 in it one weekend, and 5-6 regularly. Is it cramped? a little, but it's camping. We swapped to a TT because the kids are teenagers and didn't want to share a bed, and we started taking my MIL, and SIL regularly, and they don't know the meaning of packing lite. :)

I will say to keep an eye out for a good used one. We found ours it was 3 years old, and was garage kept, and used 3 times. We got it for about 60% of the cost of a new one. We continued to garage it, and washed the canvas after probably 75% of the trips, and never put it up wet. It was 12 years old when we sold it, and sold it for $1000 less than we paid for it, in 24 hrs. Probably could have sold it for what we paid for it.

We loved the pup, and would not be against another one.

P12 wrote:
We are looking to get a popup for our family of 6 for local travel and are currently looking at the Rockwood HW296, but i am not a fan of Berkshire Hathaway products.

Does anyone know of any other big pop ups available?

Thanks!
Mike

Nope, with the fad to go with 14' TTs that cost 2x as much as larger TTs, makers have stopped making Pop Ups in favor of making more money.

Starcraft and Palomino stopped making Pop Ups, and Jayco has pretty much stopped, only offering 4 floorplans that are pretty pathetic in features and design especially compared to pop ups they made years ago.

Coachmen and Palomino were bought up by Forest River, which also owns Rockwood and Flagstaff. Livin-Lite and Somerset are just about impossible to find at any dealer.

So you really only have Forest River or what you call Berkshire Hathaway holding companies. I agree, Forest River Pop Ups are **** and I really don't want another.

Your choices are slim unless you want used Pop Ups. The pop ups I find are always abused, falling apart, and never even close to the value that the owner thinks it's worth after destroying it with abuse.

My previous 2005 Forest River Rockwood 2290 which had a great, none bathroom, floorplan but was put together like ****. Traded it after a year of ownership since new as it was junk and didn't think it would last another year.

My prevous 2007 Starcraft 2406 which had a decent bathroom floorplan but I did hate the cramped U-dinette. The Aqualon tent sucks and leaks terribly. After having the second bunkend replaced due to leaking, we finally decided to move to a TT and agreed no more Pop Ups. I wouldn't recommend a U dinette. A standard dinette is much more roomy.

Good luck.

O.P. - Go to popupportal and you will get straight answers and not the "you need a 1 ton to tow it" garbage. I believe there is a general hatred for PUPs here, and a lot of B.S. to go along with it.
http://www.popupportal.com

Ralph Cramden wrote:
Seems like you're trying to talk yourself into this 6 person in a popup scenario. Having owned 4 over the years I can tell you that sleeping 6 in one is possible, but don't ever expect it not to be uncomfortable and a royal PITA with a capital P.

We had a Coleman Avalon, that's a highwall with a 16' box, tandem axle. Most likely the largest popup ever offered. I would never have considered 6 people on even a long weekend trip in that thing as I would not have wanted to go through all the work involved.

Get lots of plastic bins.....and a truck with a cab high fiberglass cap and 8' bed, as you'll need it. You can say storage will not be an issue all you want but it will.

Why not a 3 bunk hybrid? You can probably get out the door pricing less than the FR highwall if you play the cards right.

Bunk: I have an Avalon and it fits my family of 6 better than my previous 30' 3 bunk TT did.

Ralph Cramden wrote:
Comparing to my 17 Roo 23WS. I was out the door total for a few dimes over $19K. My GVWR is 6400.

Those Rockwood high walls are all over RV trader for around $18K to $19K and I would guess you could get one @ $16K, maybe a little less. GVWR @ 5000.

Useless Information: An Avalon, Niagara, HW296, HW277 will all have much more room than a 23' Hybrid. Try a 30' Hybrid and compare because when an Avalon or a HW296 is opened, it's 30'.

PAThwacker wrote:
In all honesty as s multiple pup owner I know the ins and outs. Not one bit of food storage in 8, 10, 12, 14, and sixteen feet.
Anything larger than 12 feet on single axles offers low ccc. Any highwall needs a dual axle setup.
My current 12 foot unit I went without a cassette shower setup to at least get a 3 foot counter. I top of counter I put a Cabelas folding dresser. Gets one side for me and one for girlfriend to pack.
Kids on trip whether mine or her 1. Or multiple. Logistical difficulties on clothes storage. Good food storage and towels
Shower suspension shelf whether in pos 8 foot to overweight 16 feet
Food storage hmmmm. 1.9 to 3 cubic fridge Doable for my tribe fir 2 days but add 1 to 3 more days or kids all bets are off and it's big coolers.
Cooking. No placd for pots and pans or necessary silverware. All pups
All pots and pans and service for 4 goes in a chuck box.
Did I mention all gear goes in truck
Did I mention one ton truck
Big cooler,six bags, 10 towels and a chuck box and six passengers
My old hybrid in profile picture could sleep 6 adults but would have at least 2 of them self support themselves fully with bags and provisions in the truck.
My tow vehicle has 2451 pounds of payload, 4 captain seats, and comparable to many 3/4 ton pickup trucks. I removed my 3rd tow tumbler to gain more storage space.

Another reason to ask your questions at the other site. Sometimes certain people here latch on to most of the PUP owners questions and tell them why they need a 1 ton and a 30' Taj Mahal with 2 bathrooms, walk in shower and 3 TV's to go camping. I have no problems with storage for a 5 day trip in my Avalon, that's why I bought a High Wall...
If you ask, a lot of people here will tell you a 1 ton is necessary for a motorcycle trailer. My F-150 tows my 5,000 lb Avalon with ease. Remember it's not just the weight it's the wind resistance (frontal area) that matters. Pop Ups have a lot less than the full sized campers.

Good luck with your decision and I hope to see you on the other site.
Adam (former Taj Mahal owner)

I have a Flagstaff HW27KS which is the cousin to this model with the difference of the Rockwood having the jack-knife sofa. For the most part, it has been a pretty decent camper.

Undersized screws have pulled out and had to be replaced. Water leaks fixed and the electric roof lift has been a constant PITA. That being said, from what I have learned on this website is that virtually ALL owners complain about what they have....and if it hasn't broken, it will. But it's a rolling vehicle and a certain amount or maintenance and the ability of being able to use a screwdriver is paramount to the RV lifestyle.

In all reality, I wish we would have gone with at least a 3 bunk hybrid, or a bunk model with the two larger bunks in the back, and if we used it more, it would have already been replaced, but it's the ownership of the camper that gets old, not the camper itself. Setting up and breaking down can be a beating, especially if bad weather is quickly approaching.

I really friggin hate to have to make the table into a bed every night and there have been a few campgrounds that we can't get into in Colorado because pop-up's aren't allowed in bear country. However, when I can have the camper loaded, truck loaded and rolling down the road at 62-65 MPH and still get 14-15 MPG, then that helps make the overall burden of ownership more bearable.

Best advise I can offer is to remove the spare off the back and throw it in the bed of the truck going down the road. The bolts will pull out and the whole assembly will start to get loose and EVERY bump you go over will make the problem worse. VOICE OF EXPERIENCE TALKING.

In all honesty as s multiple pup owner I know the ins and outs. Not one bit of food storage in 8, 10, 12, 14, and sixteen feet.
Anything larger than 12 feet on single axles offers low ccc. Any highwall needs a dual axle setup.
My current 12 foot unit I went without a cassette shower setup to at least get a 3 foot counter. I top of counter I put a Cabelas folding dresser. Gets one side for me and one for girlfriend to pack.


Kids on trip whether mine or her 1. Or multiple. Logistical difficulties on clothes storage. Good food storage and towels

Shower suspension shelf whether in pos 8 foot to overweight 16 feet


Food storage hmmmm. 1.9 to 3 cubic fridge Doable for my tribe fir 2 days but add 1 to 3 more days or kids all bets are off and it's big coolers.


Cooking. No placd for pots and pans or necessary silverware. All pups
All pots and pans and service for 4 goes in a chuck box.

Did I mention all gear goes in truck

Did I mention one ton truck

Big cooler,six bags, 10 towels and a chuck box and six passengers

My old hybrid in profile picture could sleep 6 adults but would have at least 2 of them self support themselves fully with bags and provisions in the truck.
My tow vehicle has 2451 pounds of payload, 4 captain seats, and comparable to many 3/4 ton pickup trucks. I removed my 3rd tow tumbler to gain more storage space.