Brake Myths

Woa, you mean something that looks cool isn't always the best choice? ;)

That author also has some that should be debunked...

As long as there are binders in friction material...there will be out gassing.

That out gassing is a desired 'feature' of friction material, but it needs to be
done correctly. As friction material on friction material is the goal....but if
you stop while the friction material is out gassing...it will bake a high spot
and why some will say no such thing as a warped rotor...just high spots that cause
the jitter when the pads comes across those high spots

Finally...folks (some) are seeing the issue with drilled (cast in is just okay)
Not many know that drilling (even cast in) holes removes mass and mass is one
key component in heat rejection management

Slots do aid in managing out gassing and is not really to wipe the surface of
the friction material.

That 'glaze' is the out gassed material redepositing on the friction material
that out gassed and on the cast iron.

DO NOT

use sandpaper
with ALU Oxide to remove glaze...it will leave particles that will then sand paper
your friction material. Use EMERY CLOTH or Scotch Bright (2nd best)

That guys image of a high spot is from the StopTech site and still amazes me
that so many don't believe that a 0.0001" high spot can cause the steering wheel
to jidder as if warped rotor

To use the comments of someone who has years of experience with racing brakes and apply this to all manufactured vehicles for sale to the general public makes no sense at all. The care and expenditures involved are vastly different for a passenger car and a race car where the engine alone costs more than whole passenger car and may only last for a single race (hopefully it does).

The laws of physics apply to everyone...to the ultra high end...like racing...down to the little old lady who only drives a few miles a week

High end would not 've a good setup for that little old lady...nor would her level work well for a racer...but both their stuff all are based in SAME laws of physics

The issue is in taking attributes out of context

BenK wrote:
That guys image of a high spot is from the StopTech site and still amazes me
that so many don't believe that a 0.0001" high spot can cause the steering wheel
to jidder as if warped rotor

Speaking of StopTech, my experience so far is the worst case of pad deposit compared to just about everything else.

I'm using their "street performance" pads, which has a nice high temp behavior - maintains F friction rating to 1100 deg. But at low temps, they're just not aggressive enough to abrade away the deposits.

This happens on both my daily driver (Intrepid), and fun car (Z06). Takes repeated hard braking every week or so, and it comes back in days :( I'm so paranoid that after every stop I'm in neutral with the handbrake on to avoid hot pad on rotor.

Gotta say their high temp bite is very nice though, and just about un-fadeable on the mountain road.

wintersun wrote:
To use the comments of someone who has years of experience with racing brakes and apply this to all manufactured vehicles for sale to the general public makes no sense at all. The care and expenditures involved are vastly different for a passenger car and a race car where the engine alone costs more than whole passenger car and may only last for a single race (hopefully it does).

Only difference between a racecar and street car is the desired temperature range and the mu at that temperature range.

Otherwise, as BenK mentioned, physics is physics, bet it a Camry, LeMans prototype, or loaded logging truck downhill...

RoyJ

Am currently hating the proto-type set on my Odyssey. Test brake stuff for buddy
all the time and this set the worst he's ever designed

Supposed to be all-round with higher temp attributes

Yes, but the low end binders out-gas too much and have shuddering every time and
have to scrub off the deposits each day out on the freeway

Yes, has both high temp and low temp braking. Better at the high end..as usual

My TV (Suburban)...cryogenic slotted rotors and Praise Dyno pads has heat
checked the cryo rotors...ripped the surface apart when hot and braking HARD

cryorotor heatchecked slottedrotor



This is my Silverado with NAPA HD rotors and Praise Dyno pads. Notice the
even coating from out-gassing...some would call that 'glazed' but
since even thickness...perfect for me
silveradorotor outgas out-gas bedding


Have to re-bed them all every once in a while because have to brake VERY hard
to get them HOT and out-gassing...then to have to stop and bake on a high spot


{edit}...forgot to touch on the OP's link arthur...about his thinking
that slots scrap of glazing or some such off of the pads...if true...then
pads would NOT last long being scraped down with each passing

Wow, your Suburban looks exactly like the front rotors on my Vette, (two piece racing rotors) after it was tracked with track pads. My main challenge is when daily driving it - the pads never get up to temperature, and the Stoptechs are too mild at low temp.

Your Silverado has a nice transfer layer, something I just can't seem to maintain with these Stoptech pads (with both cars). Never had a problem before, with various semi-metallics. I blame the "para-aramid" material Stop tech uses, are you familiar with this material at all?

My experience thus far with aftermarket pads: it's easy to design a pad for high bite at high temp, or high bite low temp, but almost never BOTH. The OEM pads on both my Intrepid (police package) and Z06 excelled at BOTH. They can easily ABS sticky summer tires at reasonable speeds, and still be fade proof on any mountain road. Downside? Both near $300 for a set of front pads :(

For the Intrepid, I just bought a set of NAO pads from Raybestos, which promises very good low temp bite (FF pad), but relatively poor at high temp (like all NAO pads). That's perfect for daily driving. I'm hoping this will be aggressive enough to keep a nice clean transfer layer on my rotors.

Lots of articles on the "warped rotor" myth.

My OEM rotors likewise, but continued and cracked clean through...why went to the
then very new cryo rotors. $1K including new bearing/hub assembly

What I mean by driving VERY HARD. Not many understand what is meant by 'modulating'
braking. Just going into ABS or skidding on non-ABS

This is what happened on night going and coming back from volleyball. About 80
miles round trip up along 280 (local highway...voted most beautiful..arguable that)
and testing buddies new performance front pads

They were NOT feathered the day before when I checked their PSI (kept
80PSI on the fronts because of the sipes...too many for my driving style)

Modulation in all speeds up to 100MPH (yeah, but late at nite and no vehicles
around me). Went into ABS a couple times testing where that point was with
these pads.

Feathered a fairly new set of Michelin ATX-MS LT265/75R16E's on 16x10 alloys
feathered


Braking is more important to me than 'go'...though that is right up there on
my have have list


Most peaky were Performance Friction Carbon. Slide right through a cross walk
that is normally filled with small kids, but left early that day...knew not
a good one for street usage