Comments towing with a recent Yukon 6.2L?

Don't diesels have turbos?
Turbos are not new.

Because of the weight of the engines, diesels have to have a turbo to maintain anything close to highway speeds. A 300 HP normally aspirated diesel engine would weigh several tons.

I've driven lots of diesel trucks with turbos and flown dozens of airplanes with turbos. If you need them you need them. In an airplane you can get up higher where the air is thinner and go much faster on the same amount of fuel as a normally aspirated down low so they make sense in that application.
People can certainly make their own decisions but for me wether it's 300 HP or 600HP you're still going to get to your destination, maybe two or three minutes later with the 300 hp but I can live with that so for me personally I'd rather have a simpler V-8 than a twin turbo V-6.

I mean a V8 is the one part of the truck that almost always lasts the life of the truck. I don't want to mess with the most reliable component.

txcraig wrote:

it may be worth revisiting the 3/4 van or truck option.
How far are you planning on going on camping trips? What percentage of the time are you going to be pulling?

I've got at least 7 more years of 4 kids and the wife hates having a kid crammed between us in the front seat. I hate the thought of the airbag decapitating a kid should it go off, so trucks are not an option.

It will be a combination of multi-thousand mile trips and shorter (few hundred miles) trips. Probably 5-7 trips per year. Some of those will be in the mountains. The rest of the year the vehicle (we are now focused on Expedition EL not Yukon) will be used as a daily driver. That is why a full size van is out of the question for the wife - too unwieldy for daily use. So we seem to be stuck with an SUV. The main task now is selecting the right size trailer that has enough room and the right features but still safe for the SUV TV. In my experience once you start shopping below 28 feet and 5,000 lbs for 6 people, the trailers become very spartan and cramped.

swerve or brake hard. This is where things tend to go to hell with too light a truck

OK swerve I can definitely see how a bigger trailer would be bad news with a smaller TV. However I've seen the "hard braking" scenario mentioned a lot in the discussion about 1/2 ton TVs. This might be a silly question, but with modern electric brakes and a properly adjusted brake controller shouldn't the trailer handle a large percentage of its own braking needs? My first serious towing experience was a 10,000 lb 35 foot offshore fishing boat cross-country Donzi 35ZF and that thing was on a triple axle trailer with only surge brakes. You really had to be careful braking with that. Next up was a 3800 lb slide-in camper in the F250, so again the truck had to do all the braking for the whole 12K rig. When I did finally tow an 11K lb (wet) travel trailer with electric brakes, I was amazed how easy and stable it was to come to a quick stop. I never felt unsafe or out of control with the boat or truck camper, but I was diligent about keeping lots of room and not speeding.

Now this is not to say that I expect the 6,000 lb Expedition to handle an 11K trailer as well as the F250 did. Only that it seems like hard braking a 6,500 lb trailer with a 1/2 ton TV should not be something I should be concerned about.

I went to Holiday World today and looked at several Keystone Passport Ultra-lights and they had "Load Equalization spread axle design" which is alleged to help with sway and overall control along with reducing tongue weight. I can find very little information online about this feature (just this ) so I'm not sure if it is the real deal or not:

Passports seem ... light when it comes to hitch weights (about 10%, and I've seen up to 15% in things such as the Jay Feather). Does anyone know what is different about these trailers that makes the hitch weight so much less?

From the Keystone site:

"Load Equalization Axles are a Passport towability feature. By spreading the axles an additional 10-inches, the extra wide stance equalizes weight and provide superior towability over the competition."

My current thinking is if I can keep my wet trailer weight around 6500 lbs and with the following mitigations I think I have a good shot at having a safe, comfortable and reliable towing experience:

• 6500 loaded vs 9200 rated capacity
• High quality WDH
• Load Equalization Axles
• Rear Load Leveling option on Expedition
• 365HP/420 ft lbs torque (more than my F250)
• Drive conservatively

From someone who has 'been there done that' w/ a half ton and similarly sized trailer, I think you are right on track. My trailer maxes out at about 6500 lbs wet, and we've towed with with 3 different half tons w/o any issues. Never felt overloaded, out of control, etc.

Your analysis of hard braking is right on IMO as well. The trailer braking system will account for the trailer weight. We have never had an issue. Yes, you are relying on it working as planned, but in the event of a system failure, a 1/2 ton towing 7k lbs will not have any more problems than a 1-ton towing 15k lbs. Besides, the integrated trailer brake controllers that the newer trucks have make the trailer braking system more reliable than ever.

The 2 Suburbans have been fine, but the F150 EB tows a good deal better than either. The low end torque really makes for a nice, easy tow experience. While others will certainly get the job done, I would not be crazy about towing with any other 1/2 ton drivetrain (I really don't like it when we have to take the Suburban over the F150!).

One other note about the so-called rules floating around here (the "80% rule," the "wheel-base rule," "frontal area rule" etc.) -- many of these are propagated by individuals. They are not industry standard. In other words, I don't know who created the wheel base rule, but it bounces around here quite a bit.

But it isn't found in my Ford or Chevy owners manuals, manufacturers of trailers or anywhere else I've found. I think someone made it up some time ago. Whether there is wisdom in following it is debatable, but it is just someone's opinion, that's all.

Wow. Four whole years, huh? Sorry, didn't mean to be a smart a$$. I tend to keep cars or trucks past 10 years and over 150 thousand miles. Turbos are delicate and spin at 10s of thousands RPM while glowing red hot. Maybe ford got it right and wouldn't put a potential maintenance problem in their trucks (6.0 navistar) but I don't want to pay top dollar to beta test their engines.

Don't diesels have turbos?
Turbos are not new.

That's a lot of pulling and that little 6 cylinder with two turbo chargers sounds like a potential maintenance nightmare to me.

I researched them pretty heavily, before I bought mine.
I found lots of people who have thousands of mile towing with them and say "it's the best towing engine they have ever had.
They have been in everyday use( hundreds of thousands of them)since 2011 I think

Wow. Four whole years, huh? Sorry, didn't mean to be a smart a$$. I tend to keep cars or trucks past 10 years and over 150 thousand miles. Turbos are delicate and spin at 10s of thousands RPM while glowing red hot. Maybe ford got it right and wouldn't put a potential maintenance problem in their trucks (6.0 navistar) but I don't want to pay top dollar to beta test their engines.

That's a lot of pulling and that little 6 cylinder with two turbo chargers sounds like a potential maintenance nightmare to me.

I researched them pretty heavily, before I bought mine.
I found lots of people who have thousands of mile towing with them and say "it's the best towing engine they have ever had.
They have been in everyday use( hundreds of thousands of them)since 2011 I think.
I have heard many people question them, but if there were really a problem with them, the Dodge and GM lovers would have made damn sure you heard about it.
This is the wave of the future because it works.

with modern electric brakes and a properly adjusted brake controller shouldn't the trailer handle a large percentage of its own braking needs?

In a perfect world yes. Accidents are usually caused by more than one factor lining up at the wrong time. For instance hitting a bump right before you need to brake even fairly hard can unload the TV's suspension and make handling vey difficult for a while. Couple that with dirt or mud or water on the road or a fatigued driver and there could be problems.

That's a lot of pulling and that little 6 cylinder with two turbo chargers sounds like a potential maintenance nightmare to me. They are too new to see how they will stand the test of time. I'd certainly get the best extended warranty possible.

One last point in the van's favor and I'll drop it. It has about the same footprint as the Expedition, just a lot more interior room without the hood. My family had one for years as a daily driver and it was no harder to drive than the Tahoe. Just twice the room inside. Your wife may be stuck on the cargo van idea but there are really nice ones too. You should at least contact a dealership and find a nice one and test drive. I think you would regret that many people and that much towing in an expedition.

Just a quick question - are you just completely dead-set against buying used? A used 2012-2013 2500 Suburban is going to offer a lot more capability over the Expedition. You'll gain 500 lbs of payload, and much heavier-duty axles, frame, transmission and suspension. The RAWR of a 2500 Burb is 5500 lbs, vs the 4200 lbs of a half-ton Expy or GM SUV.

I towed a 6500-lb trailer with a half ton truck. I broke stuff. Major stuff. While in the middle of multiple vacations. Family was not happy spending 4 days in a town where the biggest attraction was a Cabelas and a corn palace, instead of Rushmore and Yellowstone.

it may be worth revisiting the 3/4 van or truck option.
How far are you planning on going on camping trips? What percentage of the time are you going to be pulling?

I've got at least 7 more years of 4 kids and the wife hates having a kid crammed between us in the front seat. I hate the thought of the airbag decapitating a kid should it go off, so trucks are not an option.

It will be a combination of multi-thousand mile trips and shorter (few hundred miles) trips. Probably 5-7 trips per year. Some of those will be in the mountains. The rest of the year the vehicle (we are now focused on Expedition EL not Yukon) will be used as a daily driver. That is why a full size van is out of the question for the wife - too unwieldy for daily use. So we seem to be stuck with an SUV. The main task now is selecting the right size trailer that has enough room and the right features but still safe for the SUV TV. In my experience once you start shopping below 28 feet and 5,000 lbs for 6 people, the trailers become very spartan and cramped.

swerve or brake hard. This is where things tend to go to hell with too light a truck

OK swerve I can definitely see how a bigger trailer would be bad news with a smaller TV. However I've seen the "hard braking" scenario mentioned a lot in the discussion about 1/2 ton TVs. This might be a silly question, but with modern electric brakes and a properly adjusted brake controller shouldn't the trailer handle a large percentage of its own braking needs? My first serious towing experience was a 10,000 lb 35 foot offshore fishing boat cross-country Donzi 35ZF and that thing was on a triple axle trailer with only surge brakes. You really had to be careful braking with that. Next up was a 3800 lb slide-in camper in the F250, so again the truck had to do all the braking for the whole 12K rig. When I did finally tow an 11K lb (wet) travel trailer with electric brakes, I was amazed how easy and stable it was to come to a quick stop. I never felt unsafe or out of control with the boat or truck camper, but I was diligent about keeping lots of room and not speeding.

Now this is not to say that I expect the 6,000 lb Expedition to handle an 11K trailer as well as the F250 did. Only that it seems like hard braking a 6,500 lb trailer with a 1/2 ton TV should not be something I should be concerned about.

I went to Holiday World today and looked at several Keystone Passport Ultra-lights and they had "Load Equalization spread axle design" which is alleged to help with sway and overall control along with reducing tongue weight. I can find very little information online about this feature (just this ) so I'm not sure if it is the real deal or not:

Passports seem ... light when it comes to hitch weights (about 10%, and I've seen up to 15% in things such as the Jay Feather). Does anyone know what is different about these trailers that makes the hitch weight so much less?

From the Keystone site:

"Load Equalization Axles are a Passport towability feature. By spreading the axles an additional 10-inches, the extra wide stance equalizes weight and provide superior towability over the competition."

My current thinking is if I can keep my wet trailer weight around 6500 lbs and with the following mitigations I think I have a good shot at having a safe, comfortable and reliable towing experience:

• 6500 loaded vs 9200 rated capacity
• High quality WDH
• Load Equalization Axles
• Rear Load Leveling option on Expedition
• 365HP/420 ft lbs torque (more than my F250)
• Drive conservatively

How far are you planning on going on camping trips? What percentage of the time are you going to be pulling?
5460 dry is going to be 6500 loaded and by the time you load the camper and 6 people plus stuff in the Yukon you will still probably be over on the RAWR and close to the GCWR.
I pull a 7k toy hauler through the Colorado Rockies with a Tahoe and it does okay but a half ton is not made for pulling like a 3/4 or full ton. I'm a fairly experienced driver, Class A CDL and instructor for 5 years but after 200-300 miles I'm pretty tired. It handles okay but you have to plan way ahead to ensure you don't need to swerve or brake hard. This is where things tend to go to hell with too light a truck but I've never tried to brake hard or swerve with the camper so I don't know how it would react. Also it has to work hard so I'm always babying it so it doesn't break anything.
I'm not trying to talk you out of the Yukon. They are great daily drivers, albeit too expensive and the rear seats are very uncomfortable for anyone but small children.
If you may end up wanting to upgrade the camper as the family grows up or if you think you may get the bug and want to go on longer trips it may be worth revisiting the 3/4 van or truck option. The only other option is an Excursion. Thanks EPA! OR if you kids are approaching driving age they could drive separate and may enjoy sleeping in a tent.
Sadly our options are getting more and more limited but more expensive.

txcraig wrote:
After reading about frontal area, the "divide wheelbase by 5" rule and of course all the great replies in this post, I am now certain dialing back TT size is the way to go. The Jayco White Hawk 28DSBH is 5460 dry (635 dry hitch weight) and while the trailer's 31' length is several feet over (131" WB on the Expedition EL divided by 5 results in a max trailer length of 26.2 ft) perhaps investing in a topnotch WDH could compensate for that. I will most likely try to find a way to do some trial tows and see how the combination works.

I commend you for doing some homework here, but I would caution you that even the much higher and more effective WDH/sway systems out there can only go so far. In the end you still need enough dog for these oversized tails and secondly be careful about how much credibility you put in "trial tows" since they almost never involve "MR. MURPHY" and that outside the box situation that causes the serious accidents and injury. You can never be 100% sure, but can sure stack the odds in your favor by not pushing the envelope too much.

Larry