Comments towing with a recent Yukon 6.2L?

After reading about frontal area, the "divide wheelbase by 5" rule and of course all the great replies in this post, I am now certain dialing back TT size is the way to go. The Jayco White Hawk 28DSBH is 5460 dry (635 dry hitch weight) and while the trailer's 31' length is several feet over (131" WB on the Expedition EL divided by 5 results in a max trailer length of 26.2 ft) perhaps investing in a topnotch WDH could compensate for that. I will most likely try to find a way to do some trial tows and see how the combination works.

>> Read how they determine tow capacity. It is with almost no wind drag
I found some great threads by searching for "frontal area", very informative.

>> what would be a COMFORTABLE and safe pull

Agreed I also value being comfortable and safe. I have been in some hairy spots towing on mountain sides and in windy conditions so I appreciate the safety viewpoint.

The truck is not rated to safely pull a TT of the weight listed as "maximum tow rating". Read how they determine tow capacity.
It is with almost no wind drag.
Hell, a Dodge 3500 can pull the space shuttle, but it doesn't make it safe, or mean It won't self destruct in the first mile.
My comment was not about what you could pull, safe or not, but what would be a COMFORTABLE and safe pull for you and everyone else on the road. Exactly as it was worded, and the reason I used CAPS.
Seems to me there was a thread on here a couple weeks ago, about someone being charged with manslaughter, because his truck wasn't rated for the load he was pulling, and caused someone else's death.
I wish, as most of you do, that the factories would rate their trucks for the real world, but as of now, not.
I believe Dodge is starting to this year.
As usual you can all do whatever you want. As far as I know, this is still a free country.
Whether or not it is smart, is up to you.
JMO

txcraig wrote:
>> Travel trailers ...have... 13-15% tongue weight.
At the spec page http://www.kz-rv.com/sportsmen/specifications.html they state Unloaded Vehicle Weight is 7060 and Dry Hitch weight is 600 which comes out to 8.5%. Does going 'wet' change the ratio that much or do these factory spec type numbers vary greatly in the real world? If I end up at 8000 lbs wet at 8.5% that would be 680 hitch weight.

I've weighed trailer/truck combos before at the truck stop scales. What is the best way to measure tongue weight in the real world?

I suspect the answer to your question depends on the specific trailer. On my trailer, the fresh water tanks are located about 1/2 way between the axle and the tongue, so of course, filling them with water is going to transfer a good bit of weight to the hitch. If the tanks were closer to the axle, I suspect it would reduce this impact. Other issues include where the storage is -- on my trailer, the bulk of the storage is the forward thru compartment and the area under the queen bed, which is as far forward on the trailer as it can go. That is where we store our stove, dutch ovens, and other typical stuff. My father-in-law's trailer has the thru storage in the rear, so obviously filling that with gear would not increase the tongue weight.

>> My opinion, obviously, but there is no legitimate reason to stick at 75% of the truck's ratings.

It is really great to get the spectrum of advice and opinions to help me reach my decision. As of now I am leaning towards trying to find a lighter trailer.

>> Travel trailers ...have... 13-15% tongue weight.
At the spec page http://www.kz-rv.com/sportsmen/specifications.html they state Unloaded Vehicle Weight is 7060 and Dry Hitch weight is 600 which comes out to 8.5%. Does going 'wet' change the ratio that much or do these factory spec type numbers vary greatly in the real world? If I end up at 8000 lbs wet at 8.5% that would be 680 hitch weight.

I've weighed trailer/truck combos before at the truck stop scales. What is the best way to measure tongue weight in the real world?

OP, sounds like you are doing your homework. I feel your pain, as we also have struggled to find a suitable combo for 6 people. Not a lot of options out there.

My opinion, obviously, but there is no legitimate reason to stick at 75% of the truck's ratings. The truck is rated to do a certain job, and there is no reason not to expect it to do so. Most on here and in the 'real world' are operating at their vehicle's rated limits and doing so safely and without any problems.

The EB Expedition should be a great tow vehicle. I love how my EB F150 tows, and love how the engine performs even when not towing. That will probably be our next family vehicle.

You have plenty of power, but nowhere near the suspension and capacity for that trailer. Factor in the comparatively short wheelbase of that Denali, and you have a tow vehicle that can go fast in a dangerous manner.

intheburbs wrote:
Don't get hung up on the tow rating when talking about an SUV for towing. Frankly, the it's a meaningless number.

There's virtually no difference between the Suburban/Yukon XL and Expedition EL. They both can handle about 1500 lbs of payload, and both have a RAWR around 4200 lbs.

You'll exceed those numbers long before you get anywhere near their max "tow rating."

Google SAE J2807

Why Your Pickup Truck’s Tow Rating is BS

This is really the crux of the problem with all half tons. The payload and rear axle rating.

The tow capacity the manufactures love to flaunt is based on a ideal nicely ballanced boat or flat deck trailer with concrete blocks over the axles. These trailers have a nice aerodynamic profile, low frontal area, and around 10% tongue weight. The receiver on the Expedition is 910lbs max. See how 910lbs is 10% of 9100 lbs?? THAT is how they derive the maximum tow rating!!

Travel trailers are the OPPOSITE of ideal. They have huge frontal area, horrible aerodynamics, and 13-15% tongue weight.

You WILL NEVER be able to tow a travel trailer near maximum tow rating without exceeding at least one vehicle rating, usually starting with the receiver. But the dealer (SUV or RV) will never tell you this!!

A quick look shows the following.

Family of 6 just say around 800lbs (This is what me, DW, Aunt, 3 kids including car seats, and a couple bags comes in at)

My Expedition EL XLT 4x4 has a maximum payload of 1672lbs as listed bt the TREAD Act sticker. The Expedition generally has the most payload of 1/2 ton SUVs, most are lower. Also note, the fancier the trim level, the less payload you have left! I have had our Expedition loaded close to the max with cargo. It did ok, but I would not want to do a lot of driving that way.

1672-800 = 872lbs available for tongue.

872 / 0.14 = a maximum loaded weight of 6228lbs

Subtract 1000lbs for all stuff, water propane batteries etc. and you are looking at trailers in the 5200-5500lbs dry range.

This is generally considered the sweet spot for 1/2 tons.

Notice, even if you only had 2 people, the tongue weight is still limited by the receiver to 900lbs, which still limits you to around 6500 maybe 7000 loaded, because travel trailers have more than 10% tongue weight.

If you really want a big heavy trailer, you are going to have to go 3/4 ton or bigger.


Good luck

Txcraig

Ram has followed the SAE standard starting this year

txcraig wrote:

If it was just me I would consider the van. I just re-checked with the wife and got back a "Hell To The NO!" so I guess that is a dead-end :)

Well IMO trying to get "your cake and eat it too" is going to get you a "HALF BAKED CAKE" that you might regret based only on emotions w/o the proper balance of logic and reasoning.

Full sized Vans are IMO just as driveable as the larger SUVs and IMO offer far superior visibility and are I feel just as safe. Not as flashy, but they get the job done with room to spare and grow.

Larry