Diesel Brothers

I have preached "FAIR TRADE" for many years, NOT Free Trade!

You want to sell your stuff here fine but it needs to be made with same Labor and Environmental regulations we impose on our Businesses.

Cummins12V98 wrote:
We need to stop allowing Countries to import their products here that don't have the same or stronger Labor and Environmental regulations as we place on our Industries.

I bet you people that are so anti Diesel just keep on buying products from these Countries that have ZERO regard for the air we all breath.

I completely agree. If they want to sell their products here, then they have to meet the same environmental and labor laws making their products. This is one good thing about the new US-Mexico-Canada trade agreement. All have to meet certain labor and emissions laws for it to be tariff free. I bet all those tree huggers would be pissed if this happened because that would mean their beloved Apple i-phones would be hit with massive tariffs because of the suicide sweat shops China uses to make them.

You should also have the same standard amongst all industries, but that would mean Elon could not blast all of his rockets into the air if he had the same emissions requirements as road going diesels. I bet he would lobby to change the rules for him just like all those other rich hypocrites do so that they continue doing what they want.

We need to stop allowing Countries to import their products here that don't have the same or stronger Labor and Environmental regulations as we place on our Industries.

I bet you people that are so anti Diesel just keep on buying products from these Countries that have ZERO regard for the air we all breath.

I will give you another example where just because a government entity says so does not mean it is for the best. My wife is a senior formulation scientist for a large pharmaceutical company and has to deal with the FDA along with the EU and other countries drug regulators. Due to the FDA's overly strict rules and regulations, the cost for the same medication is exorbitantly high for people in the US versus the rest of the world. The testing requirements and red tape needed just to bring a drug to market is much longer(in years) and increases the time and cost ten or even twenty fold versus other markets.

Not only that, but the added regulation for making the drug is ridiculous too. When making a drug, you generally make them in batches on an assembly line with bulk chemicals. Per regulation, you have to test the quality of these bulk chemicals before they go into the batch. With the EU and other countries regulations, the amount of quality testing required is much less and you only have to test if not used within a certain amount of days so if you run the batch again in a few weeks while the active ingredient is still good, then you don't have to test again. With the FDA, you have a lot more tests(many are redundant) and you have to perform these test every time you make a batch of that product. This is why her company has three shifts of QC labs(about 10-15 people per shift) working around the clock to keep up with these required FDA tests. If they went by the EU test, they would likely only need one shift.

The same goes for quality assurance which is testing after the final product is made. For the EU, there are not as many tests which do not require that many labs to run. For the FDA, there are a lot more tests(again, many are redundant from old laws) and require three shifts of labs to keep up. Just these two things alone(QC and QA testing) increases the cost by a considerable margin on top of the extra tens of millions from the FDA's added testing process before it even gets to the manufacturers stage.

This is why that even though a manufacturer makes the exact same product for oversees markets for much less. They cannot sell it in the US because it does not meet all of the FDA requirements even though it went down the same production line. Many of these FDA requirements are old and outdated, but have never been changed. Instead of looking at the old rules when making new ones, the new ones are made doing the very same thing which creates for a lot of redundancy.

You are seeing a lot of this red tape and regulation with the current corona virus. There is medication that seems to be a cure for it in France that is also used to treat other illnesses. However, due to FDA regulations, this drug will have to go through all of the testing all over again, but this time to specifically treat the new illness. Yes, you heard that right. Even though it was quality assured to treat one illness, it has to go through all of the years of testing and regulation for the new illness in order for it to be prescribed for the new illness. Luckily, the president is cutting this red tape and trying to fast track a process that takes several years into just a few weeks.

All this bureaucracy, wasteful redundancies, politically motivated regulation, and overreach is just not confined to the FDA and EPA either. So no, I don't just take what the EPA says as gospel because I know that while many regulations were made for the betterment of the people, many are not.

time2roll wrote:
Ahhh just like the late '70s and '80s with gasoline engines. Emissions robbed all the power, cut fuel economy and the engines ran terrible with high maintenance cost. Many just ripped the emission equipment off.

Diesel has been exempt for far too long and is just going through the same growing pains the gassers did 40 years ago.

Lots of gassers were sent to the junk pile when actual emissions testing was implemented and modified vehicles had no cost limit to bring them back to OEM condition or registration was denied. And yes I was a licensed inspection and repair technician back in the '80s. People were angry when their Corvette was suddenly worthless.

I remember an Aston Martin that came in and it was way out of adjustment. The fuel injection was beyond us so we sent him to his specialist. When he returned for the retest he mentioned how much better the car actually ran when tuned properly. Passed with ease and all was good.

This diesel thing is going to cause some heartache but will be much better as we make progress and people comply. The air is certainly easier to breathe today than it was 40 years ago.

So at what point is going to far. What are the emissions differences between 2003, 2007, 2011, and so on? Was that very small amount of difference worth the added pollution from the DEF plants, DEF transport, pollution the plants that make the plastic DEF containers, DEF container pollution in the landfills, lower fuel economy for all trucks, and so on? Are the main type of gases emitted by diesels the same as gasoline engines? Are they only harmful in heavily populated areas and not harmful in less populated ares unlike gas engine emissions which are harmful no matter where you are at?

I understand that those who are ignorant about the EPA rules and how they came to be just being like sheep and following whatever the EPA says without question. I was one at one point too. But after learning what the regulations actually were, their minute differences over the year, and the politics behind these decisions I call BS. The regulations purposely allow more greenhouse gases into the air emitted by gas engines and our test methods are biased towards gas propelled vehicles as well. All while EU regulations and test methods are much stricture on greenhouse gas emissions of gas engines and way more lenient that the US on diesel emissions.

pitch wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

SidecarFlip wrote:
I think if the GUVMENT requirez uz to have all this equipment on our trucks they should maintainz it.


You comment is not really worth a reply except to say it smacks of ignorance on your part.

Thanks, nice you feel the need to call names.

BTW you should put " around what "I" said.

Where were names called? If it was the word ignorance that pulled the trigger, someone needs a thicker skin and a dictionary. Ignorance is not an appellation it is a state. In fact the only derivative of ignorant that is a "name" would be ignoramous.

Common tactic on the internet. If you point out that someone has said something that is incorrect, they accuse you of calling them a name.

"This diesel thing is going to cause some heartache but will be much better as we make progress and people comply. The air is certainly easier to breathe today than it was 40 years ago."
Clean air is the whole point! Those EPA rules allow you old Codgers to sit behind your keyboards flexing your internet muscles complaining about the regulations that are allowing all of us to live longer more productive lives.
It not about power, reliability, Elon Musk, or any of that! It about healthy living/clean air and to that point the regulations are working.
Of course we could eliminate the EPA rules and breath dirty air and just die earlier. Then there would be no one around to complain.

time2roll wrote:
Ahhh just like the late '70s and '80s with gasoline engines. Emissions robbed all the power, cut fuel economy and the engines ran terrible with high maintenance cost. Many just ripped the emission equipment off.

Diesel has been exempt for far too long and is just going through the same growing pains the gassers did 40 years ago.

Lots of gassers were sent to the junk pile when actual emissions testing was implemented and modified vehicles had no cost limit to bring them back to OEM condition or registration was denied. And yes I was a licensed inspection and repair technician back in the '80s. People were angry when their Corvette was suddenly worthless.

Thank you.
Early on they tried to clean the exhaust in exhaust system. As soon as they started cleaning combustion power and economy was better than the same sized pre-emission engines.
Now diesels are cleaning in the exhaust system. If you feel you got to have a diesel now, then you should be willing to pay all the cost. Bet if all the people that will never drive enough miles to save the price difference in fuel would buy gas engines instead, the clean combustion would come quicker.

Ahhh just like the late '70s and '80s with gasoline engines. Emissions robbed all the power, cut fuel economy and the engines ran terrible with high maintenance cost. Many just ripped the emission equipment off.

Diesel has been exempt for far too long and is just going through the same growing pains the gassers did 40 years ago.

Lots of gassers were sent to the junk pile when actual emissions testing was implemented and modified vehicles had no cost limit to bring them back to OEM condition or registration was denied. And yes I was a licensed inspection and repair technician back in the '80s. People were angry when their Corvette was suddenly worthless.

I remember an Aston Martin that came in and it was way out of adjustment. The fuel injection was beyond us so we sent him to his specialist. When he returned for the retest he mentioned how much better the car actually ran when tuned properly. Passed with ease and all was good.

This diesel thing is going to cause some heartache but will be much better as we make progress and people comply. The air is certainly easier to breathe today than it was 40 years ago.

Can we please get back to complaining about some cool guys with beards that build awesome and unique trucks, please?