Diesel "loudness"?

jfkmk wrote:

From the EPA website:

Defeat devices. It is a violation of the CAA to manufacture, sell, or install a part for a motor vehicle that bypasses, defeats, or renders inoperative any emission control device. For example, computer software that alters diesel fuel injection timing is a defeat device. Defeat devices, which are often sold to enhance engine performance, work by disabling a vehicle's emission controls, causing air pollution. As a result of EPA enforcement, some of the largest manufacturers of defeat devices have agreed to pay penalties and stop the sale of defeat devices.

As for the last part of your arguements, I wholeheartedly agree. The people who believe their "privilege" to modify or defeat an emission control device outweighs someone else's "privilege" or even "right" to breathe clean air is indeed very sad and quite disturbing.

The worst are the sub humans that "roll coal" as they pass a hiker, bicyclist or a vehicle they deem doesn't pollute enough so they spew toxic fumes at them.

The statute in which your statement is derived comes from the subsection referring to manufacturers, dealers, and auto shops. Nothing in there about private party folks. Section 203-a (or "b") or something like that. Pretty much concurrent with most state statutes.

I've lived my entire life without ever seeing anyone intentionally "roll coal" as they pass someone. A few youtube videos doesn't make this a factual common occurrence. I never understand why folks always come back and claim this as being a problem.

Bedlam wrote:
With full disclosure, my feeling is if you can tune an engine to fall withing its emission limits, it should not matter what device you use (following the intent of the law). The Clean Air Act is what has given the EPA power to fine owners and restrict their deleted vehicles.

Emission Standards: https://www.dieselnet.com/standards/

Sale of deleted vehicles: http://www.hardworkingtrucks.com/about-dpf-delete/

Fines for deleted vehicles: http://www.hardworkingtrucks.com/special-report-dpf-deletes/

1 link to standards and 2 links to conjecture. Nothing resolved.

At dispute here is the context of the statement: is it always illegal to modify and/or remove emissions equipment? The original posts which frustrated me are those that claimed folks who modify their trucks are ignorant, arrogant, egotistical, and just plain inconsiderate. There were no passes given...if you modify, you're one of these types of people. What is the point of saying things like this? Why are people so concerned about something so trivial? I hope that I never become someone with such a pessimistic point of view.

Cummins12V98 wrote:
This is FACT. The 1994 Dodge/Cummins trucks that were made prior to 1/1/1994 DID NOT have a CAT, the ones that were made 1/1/94 and thru mfg date of 12/31/1997 DID have a CAT. The pre Cat 94's had a section of exhaust pipe where the Cat would go starting 1/1/94.

So my question is it a "sin" to remove the CAT and buy the section of pipe that Chrysler has sitting on their shelves and install in place of the cat on the ones that came with a CAT?

Simple answer is YES you broke the law! My 2001.5 did not have a CAT and was under 10K GVWR so it was not against the law to modify the exhaust. Time box yes! Stage 1 injectors that were noted to run cleaner than the stock ones??? Different turbo??? Are they going to go after these trucks? Depends on where you live! If they raise the hood on my BIL 2008 RAM and see the EGR stuff gone and block plates bolted in its place he might have a problem, even though he bought it used that way. I believe the seller gave him a box of stuff that was removed.

Our son is a part owner of a large wholesale exhaust company. They no longer stock any delete pipes or parts. They have retail clients that have been visited by the EPA and requested to cease and desist doing mods and pointed to individual vehicles that they had worked on. Fines have not YET trickled down to individuals or shops, they have been fining the large manufacturers, trying to stop it at the source.

Chris

With full disclosure, my feeling is if you can tune an engine to fall withing its emission limits, it should not matter what device you use (following the intent of the law). The Clean Air Act is what has given the EPA power to fine owners and restrict their deleted vehicles.

Emission Standards: https://www.dieselnet.com/standards/

Sale of deleted vehicles: http://www.hardworkingtrucks.com/about-dpf-delete/

Fines for deleted vehicles: http://www.hardworkingtrucks.com/special-report-dpf-deletes/

WTP-GC wrote:
Some of you could do yourselves good by reading the statutes. In general, they can be summarized as follows:
You cannot sell a vehicle that's been tampered with (exceptions exist, of course)
A motor vehicle dealer cannot legally perform emissions deletions without having a waiver signed for off-road use.
An entity cannot sell items specifically to defeat an emission systems (except for off-road use).
You cannot tamper with gasoline powered vehicles that are used on-road.
You cannot have continuous visible emissions longer than 5 seconds unless under acceleration, lugging, deceleration.

There are other things, but that's the gist of it. I've yet to read a statute that prohibits the on-road use of a diesel truck in which the owner has modified/removed emissions equipment. Not to say that one doesn't exist, but I've not seen it. There's been tons of discussion of this for years, but no one has ever seemed to find a statute that says if you (private person) perform your own work to modify your vehicle, then you are in violation of the law. I could be proven wrong, which I would actually welcome. I'm not against knowing the truth, even if it means I'm 100% incorrect.

There's no advice implied above, and I'm just referring to the statutes I've read (both federal and state). Your state might have different rules/regs, so that's up to you.

Note that this entire argument originated with the personal vendetta of someone who believes their privileges outweigh someone else's, which is the saddest and most arrogant position to take.

From the EPA website:

Defeat devices. It is a violation of the CAA to manufacture, sell, or install a part for a motor vehicle that bypasses, defeats, or renders inoperative any emission control device. For example, computer software that alters diesel fuel injection timing is a defeat device. Defeat devices, which are often sold to enhance engine performance, work by disabling a vehicle's emission controls, causing air pollution. As a result of EPA enforcement, some of the largest manufacturers of defeat devices have agreed to pay penalties and stop the sale of defeat devices.

As for the last part of your arguements, I wholeheartedly agree. The people who believe their "privilege" to modify or defeat an emission control device outweighs someone else's "privilege" or even "right" to breathe clean air is indeed very sad and quite disturbing.

The worst are the sub humans that "roll coal" as they pass a hiker, bicyclist or a vehicle they deem doesn't pollute enough so they spew toxic fumes at them.

Some of you could do yourselves good by reading the statutes. In general, they can be summarized as follows:
You cannot sell a vehicle that's been tampered with (exceptions exist, of course)
A motor vehicle dealer cannot legally perform emissions deletions without having a waiver signed for off-road use.
An entity cannot sell items specifically to defeat an emission systems (except for off-road use).
You cannot tamper with gasoline powered vehicles that are used on-road.
You cannot have continuous visible emissions longer than 5 seconds unless under acceleration, lugging, deceleration.

There are other things, but that's the gist of it. I've yet to read a statute that prohibits the on-road use of a diesel truck in which the owner has modified/removed emissions equipment. Not to say that one doesn't exist, but I've not seen it. There's been tons of discussion of this for years, but no one has ever seemed to find a statute that says if you (private person) perform your own work to modify your vehicle, then you are in violation of the law. I could be proven wrong, which I would actually welcome. I'm not against knowing the truth, even if it means I'm 100% incorrect.

There's no advice implied above, and I'm just referring to the statutes I've read (both federal and state). Your state might have different rules/regs, so that's up to you.

Note that this entire argument originated with the personal vendetta of someone who believes their privileges outweigh someone else's, which is the saddest and most arrogant position to take.

Had new injectors put in a few months back in my 03 GMC and it was noticeably quieter for a couple thousand miles. Now it has a some clatter. Sometimes louder than others, some times not at all. Funny, hear it in the cab but not so much outside. Took it to the dealer. They checked every thing and found it all checked out. Starts and runs great. Guess it's just the nature of the beast.

352 wrote:
I had a 96 F-350 7.3 that I thought was loud. But when I bought a Dodge 2000 5.9 diesel it was REALLY noisy. I am a really happy camper now. Guess which one I liked the best?

Chevy?

My 98.5 24v Cummins is stupid loud.
I have spent time and money to quiet it down for both passenger comfort and less neighbor irritance. The main culprit is the oil pan, followed closely by the valve train, injection pump, and turbo/down pipe area.
There is a co in CA named Advanced Thermal Products that sells noise suppression blankets custom made for various diesel applications. Their products are expensive, but I love this truck and I am saving a ton of money by "fixing" this one rather than buy a newer one.
There is a poster on the Cummins forum that has spent a lot of time researching all of this, and a lot of it applies to Fords as well.
Read it here

This is FACT. The 1994 Dodge/Cummins trucks that were made prior to 1/1/1994 DID NOT have a CAT, the ones that were made 1/1/94 and thru mfg date of 12/31/1997 DID have a CAT. The pre Cat 94's had a section of exhaust pipe where the Cat would go starting 1/1/94.

So my question is it a "sin" to remove the CAT and buy the section of pipe that Chrysler has sitting on their shelves and install in place of the cat on the ones that came with a CAT?

Me Again wrote:

Tom/Barb wrote:

Hondavalk wrote:
I kinda miss the "Bad A$$" sound of the old diesels. :C:B

I never heard my 2002 Dodge 2500, when on the road. Only while it idled, rattle, rattle, pull like hell.

In the late 80s when Ford came out with their diesel they had the old IH 444 combine engine in them, and they were loud. as were the early Cummins.

The loudest Cummins/RAM were the 1998.5-2002 24V models. They had among other things an injector rattle that was very distinct. I owned one for 14 years!

Chris

I completely agree. My 12V's were a bit more "throaty".