Fiat and Cummins in court

ramgunner wrote:

Bumpyroad wrote:
I note that the article mentions moisture. I find it interesting that they don't/didn't on a 2016 or 15 use a gas/diesel cap on the fuel "port". have some funky rubber gasket like thing on the fuel door and once water gets past that it has free entry into the fuel tank.
bumpy

It's an interesting system when you see how it works. Water doesn't actually have free entry into the fuel tank. The gasket on the door is only one part (and doesn't do much).

There are two hinged doors on the fuel inlet itself - one at the very top, and one several inches down. In between is a part that will allow water to drain out if it makes it past the upper hinged door.

That's why the diesel nozzle has to be fully inserted. If the lower hinged door isn't open, nothing gets to the tank.

Many folks find they are buying one of the billet aluminum caps that are available, but many don't and have no issues.

So the issue is water in the fuel? And if so, why is this not corrected by the water separator/filter?

Bumpyroad wrote:
I note that the article mentions moisture. I find it interesting that they don't/didn't on a 2016 or 15 use a gas/diesel cap on the fuel "port". have some funky rubber gasket like thing on the fuel door and once water gets past that it has free entry into the fuel tank.
bumpy

It's an interesting system when you see how it works. Water doesn't actually have free entry into the fuel tank. The gasket on the door is only one part (and doesn't do much).

There are two hinged doors on the fuel inlet itself - one at the very top, and one several inches down. In between is a part that will allow water to drain out if it makes it past the upper hinged door.

That's why the diesel nozzle has to be fully inserted. If the lower hinged door isn't open, nothing gets to the tank.

Many folks find they are buying one of the billet aluminum caps that are available, but many don't and have no issues.

ShinerBock wrote:
If I am not mistaken, the article stated moisture effecting the SCR which is apart of the exhaust system and has nothing to do with the fuel.

Unless someone has encountered this and knows, the article is worthless. It could be moisture on a sensor somewhere. The only thing I got out of the article was there is a warranty legal battle between FCA and Cummins.

If I am not mistaken, the article stated moisture effecting the SCR which is apart of the exhaust system and has nothing to do with the fuel.

Perrysburg Dodgeboy wrote:
Cummins just like any engine manufacture is given the specs from the vehicle manufacture and told "send us a bid to supply an engine capable of meeting these specs.". If FCA/Ram (T&P) sent them the wrong specs it is on them. If Cummins did not build to the specs it is on them. But like Troy said without a whole lot more information no one can point a finger at either one.

As for the cap less fuel systems the first thing I did after buying my truck was to order this from Mopar



Don

yep, spend $60-70 K for a truck and have to buy a gas cap. When better Dodges are engineered, Fiat will engineer them.
bumpy

Cummins just like any engine manufacture is given the specs from the vehicle manufacture and told "send us a bid to supply an engine capable of meeting these specs.". If FCA/Ram (T&P) sent them the wrong specs it is on them. If Cummins did not build to the specs it is on them. But like Troy said without a whole lot more information no one can point a finger at either one.

As for the cap less fuel systems the first thing I did after buying my truck was to order this from Mopar



Don

FishOnOne wrote:

rjstractor wrote:
I'm fairly sure that Chrysler and Cummins have worked together on the overall engineering of these trucks for many years. It's not so simple as FCA buying a bunch of Cummins engines and putting them in trucks. The B series engines that Cummins supplies are specifically designed to be used in FCA built trucks, so I can see that both companies have a role in engineering the emission systems used in those trucks.

If they both have role in the engineering, then the finger pointing will never end when a big nasty liability rears it's ugly head.

Also I read that cummins reported the fix will also drop fuel economy.

Thanks Troy. The devil is going to be in the details on this one.

It's going to be interesting on what engineering firm spec'ed out the DPF and SCR for this truck. Right now I say this baby is going to be on Ram. We will see if the paperwork changes my mind.

Much like Fords 6.0. That was Fords baby. They bought it and then they over tuned it against Nav's and their own engineering advice. I could see Fiat getting really pissed off and saying we will go with our own engine. IMHO that would be like going to "new Coke."

This ones going to get interesting.

rjstractor wrote:
I'm fairly sure that Chrysler and Cummins have worked together on the overall engineering of these trucks for many years. It's not so simple as FCA buying a bunch of Cummins engines and putting them in trucks. The B series engines that Cummins supplies are specifically designed to be used in FCA built trucks, so I can see that both companies have a role in engineering the emission systems used in those trucks.

If they both have role in the engineering, then the finger pointing will never end when a big nasty liability rears it's ugly head.

Also I read that cummins reported the fix will also drop fuel economy.

I'm fairly sure that Chrysler and Cummins have worked together on the overall engineering of these trucks for many years. It's not so simple as FCA buying a bunch of Cummins engines and putting them in trucks. The B series engines that Cummins supplies are specifically designed to be used in FCA built trucks, so I can see that both companies have a role in engineering the emission systems used in those trucks.

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:

Grit dog wrote:
Lol^. Great post!
Yeah not sure what Cummins has to do with it anyway. The emissions parts made by Fram. (Love it)
Pretty sure this has nothing to do with the stupid capless fill ports. Still one of the dumber ideas, IMO, but for those not in the know, they are talking about defective truck parts that are waaaay south of the fuel filler in the ole diesel digestive system.
Like saying whys yer poo brown after eating carrots? Cause something happened to the carrots in between! Still doesn't explain the asparagus phenomenon though!

I thought cummins also produces the exhaust system on these trucks. That's why fiat is expecting cummins to foot the bill. I would also expect the 3500 to be part of this issue as well as the article was poorly written.

Cummins makes SCR's and DPF? News to me. They might spec them out, but I never knew they made the actual parts?
Link me up Fish!

Perhaps supplies would have been a better description.

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