Forum Discussion
carringb wrote:
Terryallan wrote:
you do know The Gov outlawed the Station wagon?
Oh really? I can't tell if you're joking or not.
PS - Wagons aren't slow anymore. Ford Flex does 0-60 in 5.5 sec stock, and can do low 12's in the quarter mile with some programming.
E65 AMG SportWagen does 0-60 in 3.9 sec.
Talking about the real station wagons. Not the cross over wagon. Remember the Olds Vista cruiser. I remember the debate on Cspan when they regulated working station wagons out of existance. Remember those wagons could tow a real TT, as well as any of todays 1500 trucks, and haul the family along as well. None of those in your pictures can do that. On a lighter note. the real wagons are highly sought after. If you can find a Vista Cruiser, Or any of the real Station Wagons. You can turn a tidy profit.
Those in your pic look nice. But can't do half what a 9 passenger station wagon could do.Bluhorn wrote:
The real story here is the lobbyists that work for the car companies, namely Toyota that have so many politicians in there pockets that the cafe standards and the credits involved are so highly tilted in there favor its ridiculous. Of course I know that all car companies have lobbys working for them. I also know that Chrysler has made mistakes and bad management decisions as has GM, but some of these standards are highly "tilted" toward a few companies. I wish I was computer literate enough to provide a link but its out there online to be viewed. Our politicians are for sale to the highest bidder.
And so are our voters!- The real story here is the lobbyists that work for the car companies, namely Toyota that have so many politicians in there pockets that the cafe standards and the credits involved are so highly tilted in there favor its ridiculous. Of course I know that all car companies have lobbys working for them. I also know that Chrysler has made mistakes and bad management decisions as has GM, but some of these standards are highly "tilted" toward a few companies. I wish I was computer literate enough to provide a link but its out there online to be viewed. Our politicians are for sale to the highest bidder.
Terryallan wrote:
you do know The Gov outlawed the Station wagon?
Oh really? I can't tell if you're joking or not.
PS - Wagons aren't slow anymore. Ford Flex does 0-60 in 5.5 sec stock, and can do low 12's in the quarter mile with some programming.
E65 AMG SportWagen does 0-60 in 3.9 sec.carringb wrote:
The government isn't telling them what to make. They set the target (with input from the automakers) and the automakers decide how to meet that target. If FCA can't meet that target, which they've had a long time to plan for, that's nothing but poor planning on their part. If they put more effort into building desirable small cars (they've gotten better!) meeting CAFE targets would be achievable.
you do know The Gov outlawed the Station wagon? That's why everyone started driving SUVs. Now they want to outlaw SUVs.- The government isn't telling them what to make. They set the target (with input from the automakers) and the automakers decide how to meet that target. If FCA can't meet that target, which they've had a long time to plan for, that's nothing but poor planning on their part. If they put more effort into building desirable small cars (they've gotten better!) meeting CAFE targets would be achievable.
- I guess the story really is the government sucks.
chevman - There is a name for an economic system in which the govt does not own the means of production but controls what is produced and it is not capitalism.
- Assuming we accept that the govt has a right and a role to mandate efficency standards (not that I neccessarily agree with that):
They've done it this way for decades and all it's done is make the econo-box a "poor persons" car. As a result, no one really wants to buy them and manufactures really don't want to sell them or put effort into making them high quality cars.
Recently (totally unrelated to cafe standards), we have seen what market driven processes can do when gas prices jumped from the old $1.20/gallon to the $3-4/gallon. People demanded efficency and it came in nice packages.
The fair and more effective solution to companies and consumers is to apply penalties and rewards to the individual consumer. It makes no sense to let Ford or Toyota have a major advantage in selling smog inducing trucks just because they have a line of efficent cars to offset the penalties.
Instead set a target efficency for cars and light trucks at the individual consumer level (you pay for it either way but at least this is transparent).
- If you don't meet or beat that average, there is an efficency tax you pay. Maybe $500 for each mpg over the target.
- At the end of the year, they total up the amount taken in and cars that beat the average get a percentage of the efficency tax rebated based on the amount that they beat the goal by.
This creates a capitalist incentive for people to demand fuel efficent vehicles because they save on taxes or get a rebate. Because people are demanding fuel effienct vehicles, manufacturers will produce them at a profit and they can outfit them to be more than econoboxes.
Now back to the debate of if the govt should even be involved in the discussion. PackerBacker wrote:
Terryallan wrote:
Hmm. the Gov tell car companies what kind of car they have to sell. Not a good thing, I think
I agree. Governments should stick to governing their countries and leave the consumer to decide the products. In today's world of technology consumers are very savvy and the openness of media is better at keeping companies honest with their products.
I too would love to see government stick to just governing the county.... wonder when it will start:h IF the government DOES MAKE a company build a certain vehicle...I have a name for it....I'd call it a "GRIDLOCK", ie the Dodge Gridlock....huh, come on...gotta admit...that's a good name for it if the GOVERNMENT is involved with what an Auto manufacturer has to build.........:B
