Forum Discussion
149 Replies
Reisender wrote:
Our grand Cherokee was a good vehicle for us. It had a higher tow rating than our EV SUV. But it was no where near as capable. In comparison it was a dog. Having said that I’m sure the new ones are better.
All jmho.
We used to have a 1996 Cherokee (small version not the bigger "Grand") with the straight 6...Pulled a small boat with it that I'm guessing was similar in weight to your teardrop. Absolutely not a dog. Never felt it struggled at all.
The newer SUVs have a lot more power and smoother engines and transmissions, so I would expect them to be even better.
Again, if you want to take it out on the race track towing, I wouldn't be surprised if the EV wins but modern ICE drivetrains are pretty incredible and a teardrop isn't much of a load.
I can't see high performance being a real separator in real life use.
It's also like when they talk about crazy 0-60 times. Who actually actually puts their foot to the floor and holds it there till they hit 60 in real life driving? Maybe if you get a sports car and take it to track days but in real life driving not so much. The days of 40hp VW bugs that took 60 seconds to hit 60mph with it floored, are long gone. Even bottom of the barrel econoboxes get brisk acceleration.
As you say...JMHO.Lantley wrote:
Good chance there will need to be far fewer mechanics for EVs.
JRscooby wrote:
"But my point of mentioning my old training is to point out that training is not a big issue. Likely anybody that retires out of shop will be replaced by a younger person that has been trained on the EV."
Your making my point. Do we have to wait for the current mehanics to retire?
Can we train the current mechnics or do we need to find a new generation of EV capable mechanics? How long will the mechanic turnover take?
How will the lack of trained mechanics impact the roll out of EV's by legacy ICE car builders? In short does Ford have enough trained staff in place to handle the F-150 lightning roll out?
Hopefully they have more EV mechanics than diesel mechanics.
None of my local dealerships have enough knowledgeable diesel mechanics,hopefully they will do better with EV.
I speculate half the current service locations could be out of business.Lantley wrote:
I don' know about that....We have been told repeatadly that EVs have fewer parts, and thus assembly is easier/cheaper, and there is less to go wrong.... So they are much more reliable... It almost sounds like the old commercial for Maytag, and their repairmen having nothing to do.....
JRscooby wrote:
"But my point of mentioning my old training is to point out that training is not a big issue. Likely anybody that retires out of shop will be replaced by a younger person that has been trained on the EV."
Your making my point. Do we have to wait for the current mehanics to retire?
Can we train the current mechnics or do we need to find a new generation of EV capable mechanics? How long will the mechanic turnover take?
How will the lack of trained mechanics impact the roll out of EV's by legacy ICE car builders? In short does Ford have enough trained staff in place to handle the F-150 lightning roll out?
Hopefully they have more EV mechanics than diesel mechanics.
None of my local dealerships have enough knowledgeable diesel mechanics,hopefully they will do better with EV.valhalla360 wrote:
Reisender wrote:
Yah. And I gotta say, towing with an EV the last couple months has been...enlightening. Range aside, we have towed everything with everything, and it is a whole different experience towing with an EV. We’ll keep it fair and just compare an SUV to an SUV. But towing a small trailer with a gas grand Cherokee and the same type of trailer with an EV SUV is an eye opening experience. Power on tap and lots of it, no hesitation, no shifting, no heating on hills, superior breaking with almost all of it regenerative braking and totally quiet and effortless.
If I recall, you are pulling a small tear drop trailer. A gas Grand Cherokee will hardly notice it's back there. It should have no issues providing brisk acceleration without hesitation. Even on fairly steep hills, it should be able to hold in overdrive (plus modern transmissions are much more sedate when shifting). If it's overheating, something is seriously wrong. Braking should be no problem. Turn on tow/haul and it will downshift taking the load off the brakes.
Now if you are entering short distance races towing your trailer, sure an EV will probably win but the gas option has plenty of power for such a small trailer.
Our grand Cherokee was a good vehicle for us. It had a higher tow rating than our EV SUV. But it was no where near as capable. In comparison it was a dog. Having said that I’m sure the new ones are better.
All jmho.spoon059 wrote:
Reisender wrote:
superior breaking with almost all of it regenerative braking and totally quiet and effortless.
So I'm not too familiar with the regenerative braking system. Can you explain a little about it? I'm assuming it isn't traditional rotors and pads that create heat, but resistance motors that recharge a battery.
Does that create any heat?
Does regenerative braking eventually wear out going down a long steep hill?
Does it provide sufficient braking for a heavier trailer? I'm imagining my Ram with exhaust braking that literally requires no manual effort on my part and keeps my speed down with ease.
Regenerative breaking is just the motors acting as generators and recharging the battery on the way down a hill. Theoretically you run out of regenerative breaking when the battery is full although that has never happened to me in 7 years of driving EV’s.
We tow a small trailer with an SUV. I can’t comment on heavier trailers as I haven’t experienced that.Reisender wrote:
superior breaking with almost all of it regenerative braking and totally quiet and effortless.
So I'm not too familiar with the regenerative braking system. Can you explain a little about it? I'm assuming it isn't traditional rotors and pads that create heat, but resistance motors that recharge a battery.
Does that create any heat?
Does regenerative braking eventually wear out going down a long steep hill?
Does it provide sufficient braking for a heavier trailer? I'm imagining my Ram with exhaust braking that literally requires no manual effort on my part and keeps my speed down with ease.Reisender wrote:
Yah. And I gotta say, towing with an EV the last couple months has been...enlightening. Range aside, we have towed everything with everything, and it is a whole different experience towing with an EV. We’ll keep it fair and just compare an SUV to an SUV. But towing a small trailer with a gas grand Cherokee and the same type of trailer with an EV SUV is an eye opening experience. Power on tap and lots of it, no hesitation, no shifting, no heating on hills, superior breaking with almost all of it regenerative braking and totally quiet and effortless.
If I recall, you are pulling a small tear drop trailer. A gas Grand Cherokee will hardly notice it's back there. It should have no issues providing brisk acceleration without hesitation. Even on fairly steep hills, it should be able to hold in overdrive (plus modern transmissions are much more sedate when shifting). If it's overheating, something is seriously wrong. Braking should be no problem. Turn on tow/haul and it will downshift taking the load off the brakes.
Now if you are entering short distance races towing your trailer, sure an EV will probably win but the gas option has plenty of power for such a small trailer.Lantley wrote:
I see the potential for difficulty because Tesla has an entirely different sales and service model.
There is not a Tesla deaership on every corner. Tesla only does one thing EV! Can Ford or any legacy dealer keep up with it all?
EV and ICE under one roof.
An ICE mechanic may not be as proficeient with a volt meter and osciliscope as a EV mechanic.
It's an entire new world for legacy dealers.
Can you teach an old dog new tricks?
I'm not saying it can't be done. But starting from scratch is sometimes easier than trying to adapt!
Microsoft was able to manilpulate the computer in ways IBM never imagined. Google raised the bar on Microsoft.
Tesla has now re invented how to propel a car down the road.
Will the legacy car dealers figure it out?
Time will tell,but merely trying to mimick Tesla will not be enough to turn the big ships around.
A dealership in every town and an established brand should be a positive for legacy manufacturers.
Have you seen a modern car? Tons of electrical/electronic devices. Also, mechanics are constantly doing training. No reason to expect working on EVs will present a challenge...it's not like there was a pool or highly trained EV mechanics and Tesla snapped them up.
Based on some of the articles, Tesla went thru huge growing pains starting up because they didn't have the experience. If it wasn't for it being the pet project of an owner with deep pockets and a knack for milking govt money, they would have gone bankrupt years ago. The legacy companies doing EVs on a smaller scale and building up are much better suited.
Microsoft/IBM: MS didn't have any special knowledge. It was more of a marketing coup. IBM could easily have built their own DOS but wanted one now and simply paid for it. The mistake was they bought the use of MS-DOS but not full ownership rights. This allowed MS to sell it to anyone who wanted to assemble the hardware.
Google/Microsoft: They are powerhouses in two separate markets. MS still is dominant in PC operating systems and office programs. Google is dominant in internet and mobile device operating systems.
Tesla hasn't reinvented anything. EVs have been around for over a century. The technology isn't really that innovative but they have an owner with deep pockets who also is good at milking govt programs. The real question is will Tesla hold up when the big manufacturers take the market seriously.- :B
2oldman wrote:
bgum wrote:
Yeah, everything is a conspiracy.
What a way to keep sales and prices up.
:B Lantley wrote:
JRscooby wrote:
"But my point of mentioning my old training is to point out that training is not a big issue. Likely anybody that retires out of shop will be replaced by a younger person that has been trained on the EV."
Your making my point. Do we have to wait for the current mehanics to retire?
Can we train the current mechnics or do we need to find a new generation of EV capable mechanics? How long will the mechanic turnover take?
How will the lack of trained mechanics impact the roll out of EV's by legacy ICE car builders? In short does Ford have enough trained staff in place to handle the F-150 lightning roll out?
Hopefully they have more EV mechanics than diesel mechanics.
None of my local dealerships have enough knowledgeable diesel mechanics,hopefully they will do better with EV.
If Ford - or any other EV manufacturer - wants to succeed, they will have to put in place techs that can do the job and the infrastructure for them to do it. They trained people to build them, they can train people to work on them. I am certain it's in the plan and likely already happening. Frankly I don't see this as a big deal. Most companies are constantly providing training for new tech. You can't survive and compete if you don't have it in your plan. Who hasn't had a job where you weren't always learning something new -software, building materials, tools, hardware, etc. This occurs in every job.
Legacy ICE mechanics aren't going away on day one. It will be years before we see a major decline in the need for ICE mechanics. And smart independent shops will do themselves a favor by hiring/training their own EV techs. And smart ICE mechanics will learn how to work on EV's.
I don't know a thing about EV's but superficially the systems look much simpler than the myriad of ICE configurations and parts that exist today.
And the entire vehicle isn't changing. Lots of mechanical parts of these cars are still the same principal.
