Hearing rumors GM and Navistar teaming up ?

goducks10 wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:

dodge guy wrote:
So GM needs to team up with a company with one foot in the grave to try and build trucks? Is their much of a future here to care about whether it's a good idea or not?!

Didn't Chrysler have one foot in the grave before the bailout! :W

Yes, but GM had two feet in the same grave.;)

Yep and they are starting to throw the dirt (Navistar) on their feet!

FishOnOne wrote:

dodge guy wrote:
So GM needs to team up with a company with one foot in the grave to try and build trucks? Is their much of a future here to care about whether it's a good idea or not?!

Didn't Chrysler have one foot in the grave before the bailout! :W

Yes, but GM had two feet in the same grave.;)

dodge guy wrote:
So GM needs to team up with a company with one foot in the grave to try and build trucks? Is their much of a future here to care about whether it's a good idea or not?!

Didn't Chrysler have one foot in the grave before the bailout! :W

ksss wrote:
I don't see GM entering the 650/750 market. The GM trucks of this class had different engine options and the 6.6 was not one of them. I think what will be interesting is seeing what engine powers Navistar's version of the same truck, will they just adopt the GM engine or will they continue to build their own. The IH version of the 6.4 suffers from the Ford 6.4 reputation, even though historically speaking Navistar's versions of their engines always seemed to run better than the Ford version. I looked over Navistar's class 3 trucks at CONEXPO in Vegas, last year. As rugged as I think they are, there is zero chance I would ever buy a 6.4 motor. I doubt I am alone in that sentiment. I think it will be interesting to see what happens. I was talking to my Chevy commercial salesman and he says that the 45-5500 trucks will be GM pickup based like Ram and Ford. No mention of Navistar.

I think Cummins could eventually used by Ford, GM and Navistar

I don't see GM entering the 650/750 market. The GM trucks of this class had different engine options and the 6.6 was not one of them. I think what will be interesting is seeing what engine powers Navistar's version of the same truck, will they just adopt the GM engine or will they continue to build their own. The IH version of the 6.4 suffers from the Ford 6.4 reputation, even though historically speaking Navistar's versions of their engines always seemed to run better than the Ford version. I looked over Navistar's class 3 trucks at CONEXPO in Vegas, last year. As rugged as I think they are, there is zero chance I would ever buy a 6.4 motor. I doubt I am alone in that sentiment. I think it will be interesting to see what happens. I was talking to my Chevy commercial salesman and he says that the 45-5500 trucks will be GM pickup based like Ram and Ford. No mention of Navistar.

ksss wrote:

RobertRyan wrote:

ksss wrote:
The 6.6 is certainly capable of medium duty. They used them in their medium duty trucks from 03 to 08,and I own a 5500 4x4 CC and pull the to max gvw everyday. The new medium duty trucks will have the newer Duramax in them when they release in 2017, not sure what power rating they will have. Likely derated from the 3500

I would say the engines will be Navistar or Isuzu, which they stated they will be having some Isuzu rebranded trucks To use them as MDT's the 6.6 was putting out 300hp and 500lbs ft of torque, in the TopKick , a lot less than the 3/4 ton specification
What GM is looking for is a F650/F750 competitor, Isuzu with it's Light Trucks to us but (you call them Medium,) will cater for the straight delivery function. Navistar can provide those sort of Trucks, just like it did with Ford.

The 300 hp and 550 foot pounds was identical to the LB7 Duramax spec offered in 3/4 and 1 ton pickups. You are right however that they are detuned for medium duty, which is common due to the duty cycle of the heavier truck. Mine is an LLY with the 300/550 spec (which is lower than an LLY pickup of the same vintage. However it runs 5:19 gear ratio, pulls whatever you want. The engines and drivetrains of the Navistar truck will be GM.

That I wonder about the engines, as the MaxxForce engines have power, reliability? well that is another issue. The previous TopKick MDT's did not sell and they were no F650/ F750 competitors especially with 300hp and 550hp

RobertRyan wrote:

ksss wrote:
The 6.6 is certainly capable of medium duty. They used them in their medium duty trucks from 03 to 08,and I own a 5500 4x4 CC and pull the to max gvw everyday. The new medium duty trucks will have the newer Duramax in them when they release in 2017, not sure what power rating they will have. Likely derated from the 3500

I would say the engines will be Navistar or Isuzu, which they stated they will be having some Isuzu rebranded trucks To use them as MDT's the 6.6 was putting out 300hp and 500lbs ft of torque, in the TopKick , a lot less than the 3/4 ton specification
What GM is looking for is a F650/F750 competitor, Isuzu with it's Light Trucks to us but (you call them Medium,) will cater for the straight delivery function. Navistar can provide those sort of Trucks, just like it did with Ford.

The 300 hp and 550 foot pounds was identical to the LB7 Duramax spec offered in 3/4 and 1 ton pickups. You are right however that they are detuned for medium duty, which is common due to the duty cycle of the heavier truck. Mine is an LLY with the 300/550 spec (which is lower than an LLY pickup of the same vintage. However it runs 5:19 gear ratio, pulls whatever you want. The engines and drivetrains of the Navistar truck will be GM.

carringb wrote:

KD4UPL wrote:
If not, doesn't GM still own Detroit Diesel or did they sell that? Years ago you could get a GM medium duty with a CAT. Now that would be cool.

Detroit Diesel has been a wholey-owned Daimler brand since 2000. Fun fact: when you select between a Mercedes and Detroit Diesel in your new Freightliner, the only difference is the valve covers :)

CAT is no longer certified to sell on-highway diesels (they gambled on EGR instead of Urea-post-treatment, and never got it working right so they threw in the towel). The CAT-branded trucks are actually a Navistar joint-venture, but some of those even have a Cummins after Navistar was de-certified for a while, after they were caught cheating on their EPA test. It turns out Navistar never actually got their EGR system fully compliant either... They caught caught, paid the fines, and then had to dig out of the while using help from Cummins. First by supplying motors, then helping them quickly develop a Urea-based after-treatment.

http://www.truckinginfo.com/article/story/2013/04/cummins-and-navistar-reunite.aspx

You are right on. Our new('14-'15) Navistar school buses have a Cummins 6.7 in them vs the Navistar DT-466.

n7bsn wrote:

Charlie D. wrote:

Why not?

Know who made the Ford 6.0? Google Ford Navistar lawsuit.

See Lessmore and DirtyOil's posts. Ford had as much or more responsibility for the 6.0 failure as anyone.

dodge guy wrote:
So GM needs to team up with a company with one foot in the grave to try and build trucks? Is their much of a future here to care about whether it's a good idea or not?!

Life support for Navistar and hopefully rebooting GM's moribund MDT market