Looking for a little guidance on improving our camping experiences (and thank you in advance for indulging a low-winded first post!): First a little background:- We are a family of 3 (me, DW and 18mo DD) and oftentimes camp by ourselves. - We currently have a 2003 Niagara PUP (pre high-wall - but heavy anyway) that we have been towing with my 2006 Access Cab Tacoma w/ tow pkg (6500# max tow & 650# tongue capacity). I use a WDH, sway bar, Prodigy brake controller. - We typically do about 5-6, long weekend trips in Southern/Central California, and then one or two, week-long trips to Yosemite every year. We usually go to CGs without hookups.- We have loved this PUP, but the time and effort of packing, setup, tear-down etc is taking a lot of the fun out of trips. Our 18mo DD is so active now that it usually takes one of us parents to corral her while the other works on the setup/tear-down - which makes trips seem like all that much more effort.- Our Niagara is getting "long in the tooth" and I feel like I'm chasing my tail fixing one niggling little problem after another. Every trip seems to require fixes before and after.- We'd like to take some of the effort out of these camping trips as we'd camp more often, and take longer trips as well (i.e. Yellowstone, the Rockies etc).Soooo, all of this has been leading me to look into whether a new or newer HTT would help us to enjoy this lifestyle even more.Now my questions1. Is setup and tear-down that significantly different between a PUP and HTT to the extent that it changes your perception of the level of effort? Again, we're hoping that ease of use translates into more use...2. Are HTTs significantly more comfortable (in maintaining temperature) then a high-wall PUP with a good furnace and A/C? More comfort for DW & DD equals more trips for me!3. We really like the open, airy feeling of our PUP. The limited experience we've had with TTs makes us appreciate how bright our PUP is. Are there HTTs that are more "PUP-like" in this regard?4. What are some of the must-have/should have features/options on HTT? i.e. do all HTTs allow access to bathroom and fridge/kitchen when turtled? 5. Is it likely that our Yamaha EF2400iS 2400 watt generator will power the A/C on newer generation HTTs (elevation dependent of course)? This gennie will NOT power the AC on our current PUP (has older Coleman 15K BTU unit) even at sea level. 6. Do you have any specifics makes and models to recommend? We are not looking to go too big at the moment. We'd like to be able to use our current TV for the next year and possibly upgrade to a Tundra or other full-size truck after that. But even then, I don't see us needing a huge trailer just for the 3 of us (and possibly some tag-alongs periodically). Thanks for any and all thoughts on this!

well for starters don't use your daughter as an excuse. She is 18months now...next year she won't be. I wouldn't change because of the "extra work" for one or two years.I do not understand the "work and labor" involved in setting up a pup. I have ours parked, set up and beer in hand in 20 minutes tops. If a trailer saves me 5 or 10 minutes, oh well.My pup has almost zero maintenance. A HTT will require many things to be done as it has multiple system that a pup doesn't have. I wouldn't buy an htt to save setup,aggravation etc. You might want to trade for better heating and maybe the bathroom.

SurfnCamp wrote:Looking for a little guidance on improving our camping experiences (and thank you in advance for indulging a low-winded first post!): as a former SoCaler and still a surfer for nearly 40 years, here's my answers:Now my questions1. Is setup and tear-down that significantly different between a PUP and HTT to the extent that it changes your perception of the level of effort? Again, we're hoping that ease of use translates into more use...as a owner of popups for 17 years, i can say that there is much less setup/tear-down. there are other things necessary different than popups but not strenuous nor requiring to be done immediately. much more relaxed effort.2. Are HTTs significantly more comfortable (in maintaining temperature) then a high-wall PUP with a good furnace and A/C? More comfort for DW & DD equals more trips for me!they do maintain temps better but you'll still need to use Popup Gizmos/solar blankets and Reflectix if you want the most efficiency.3. We really like the open, airy feeling of our PUP. The limited experience we've had with TTs makes us appreciate how bright our PUP is. Are there HTTs that are more "PUP-like" in this regard?they are more PUP-like but won't be as airy as one. basically somewhere in between a popup and TT.4. What are some of the must-have/should have features/options on HTT? i.e. do all HTTs allow access to bathroom and fridge/kitchen when turtled?a slideout was a must for us. not all hybrids allow access to bathroom/kitchen/fridge but most do. a sofa allows for "turtling" so that you can sleep on the dinette and the sofa when you don't want to setup the canvas bunk ends. 5. Is it likely that our Yamaha EF2400iS 2400 watt generator will power the A/C on newer generation HTTs (elevation dependent of course)? This gennie will NOT power the AC on our current PUP (has older Coleman 15K BTU unit) even at sea level.my Honda 2000w will run the Dometic 13.5k a/c on my Roo. so i expect your 2400 will run most modern 13.5k a/c's easily. 6. Do you have any specifics makes and models to recommend? We are not looking to go too big at the moment. We'd like to be able to use our current TV for the next year and possibly upgrade to a Tundra or other full-size truck after that. But even then, I don't see us needing a huge trailer just for the 3 of us (and possibly some tag-alongs periodically).there's a saying in the RV community:"buy your second trailer, first".as far as brands, it's like asking which are the best trucks or which is the best football team.every brand has its fans and haters. there's no substitute for YOU looking at all the brands/models and finding what works for you and your family. it's a very subjective process. i would recommend a 19' tandem axle hybrid. but since you live on the West Coast, expect very high prices for used and new, compared to the rest of the country. we drove to Chicago and back to save a lot of money on our hybrid.Thanks for any and all thoughts on this!

DW's biggest joys were being able to load the HTT and fridge w/o popping up, and the fact she now had a real shower and toilet.A slide was a "must have" for us, even with 2 people it can get tight on a rainy day.Fridge and bathroom access when folded-up will vary between makes and models, you need to see for yourself if one model will work for you or not.We tried turtleing once. Found the couch and collapsed table too short (and DW's 5'1")Setup and teardown are a lot quicker than a PUP. Many items can have their permanent place and don't need to be packed.Many people cut Reflectix pieces for the windows and use solar covers (Pop-Up Gizmos) to help with heating and cooling.

Mbopp's experience is similar to ours when we traded our PUP for a HTT. My main problems with the HTT were 1)that, like a PUP, I had to make the bed while sitting on it2)the front bed end leaked a little when driven in the rain - with potential longterm damage3) sleeping discomfort for adults when turtledLoved the open feel with the tented bed ends, but the downside was less insulation from damp weather and from noise from other campers, compared with a fully-enclosed TT.

The beds are always made in my pup.I just raise the roof and slide them out and voila Making beds will have to be a part of your "setup" procedure with a HTT.Another thing to consider is the bathroom in a HTT. You never listed that as one of the things you were looking for but I am sure you would use it if you had it. Maintaining it will be another thing that you will have to do that you didn't with your pup. Without hookups you may have to deal with your gray tank "during" your stay and of course have to dump and clean the entire system at the dump station on your way out. There you may encounter line ups. I personally have a solid system in place for set up. We arrive and pick a site. I back in to position,which you could do quicker with a pup, and then send the wife and 2 kids to the playground for 20 minutes. Setting up a pup is a one person job. I have heard of some set up stories on here of needing 2 people to pack up the beds on an HTT. I am sure some do it solo but just some need both people.Plus there will be a lot more preventative maintenance required with a HTT or TT to avoid water infiltration( windows, roof, bunk ends)Have you considered the extra space needed to store when not in use?Don't get me wrong, I am not against an HTT or TT's for that matter but it seems you are trading more for convenience and to have less work and I believe in the long run you will have more.good luck in your decision

Is a HTT right for us? And a few other ??'s | Good Sam Community

popupcamping
Explorer
Sep 30, 2013
well for starters don't use your daughter as an excuse. She is 18months now...next year she won't be. I wouldn't change because of the "extra work" for one or two years.

I do not understand the "work and labor" involved in setting up a pup. I have ours parked, set up and beer in hand in 20 minutes tops. If a trailer saves me 5 or 10 minutes, oh well.

My pup has almost zero maintenance. A HTT will require many things to be done as it has multiple system that a pup doesn't have.

I wouldn't buy an htt to save setup,aggravation etc. You might want to trade for better heating and maybe the bathroom.
bikendan
Explorer
Sep 30, 2013
SurfnCamp wrote:
Looking for a little guidance on improving our camping experiences (and thank you in advance for indulging a low-winded first post!):

as a former SoCaler and still a surfer for nearly 40 years, here's my answers:

Now my questions
1. Is setup and tear-down that significantly different between a PUP and HTT to the extent that it changes your perception of the level of effort? Again, we're hoping that ease of use translates into more use...
as a owner of popups for 17 years, i can say that there is much less setup/tear-down. there are other things necessary different than popups but not strenuous nor requiring to be done immediately. much more relaxed effort.

2. Are HTTs significantly more comfortable (in maintaining temperature) then a high-wall PUP with a good furnace and A/C? More comfort for DW & DD equals more trips for me!
they do maintain temps better but you'll still need to use Popup Gizmos/solar blankets and Reflectix if you want the most efficiency.

3. We really like the open, airy feeling of our PUP. The limited experience we've had with TTs makes us appreciate how bright our PUP is. Are there HTTs that are more "PUP-like" in this regard?
they are more PUP-like but won't be as airy as one. basically somewhere in between a popup and TT.

4. What are some of the must-have/should have features/options on HTT? i.e. do all HTTs allow access to bathroom and fridge/kitchen when turtled?
a slideout was a must for us. not all hybrids allow access to bathroom/kitchen/fridge but most do. a sofa allows for "turtling" so that you can sleep on the dinette and the sofa when you don't want to setup the canvas bunk ends.

5. Is it likely that our Yamaha EF2400iS 2400 watt generator will power the A/C on newer generation HTTs (elevation dependent of course)? This gennie will NOT power the AC on our current PUP (has older Coleman 15K BTU unit) even at sea level.
my Honda 2000w will run the Dometic 13.5k a/c on my Roo. so i expect your 2400 will run most modern 13.5k a/c's easily.

6. Do you have any specifics makes and models to recommend? We are not looking to go too big at the moment. We'd like to be able to use our current TV for the next year and possibly upgrade to a Tundra or other full-size truck after that. But even then, I don't see us needing a huge trailer just for the 3 of us (and possibly some tag-alongs periodically).
there's a saying in the RV community:"buy your second trailer, first".
as far as brands, it's like asking which are the best trucks or which is the best football team.
every brand has its fans and haters. there's no substitute for YOU looking at all the brands/models and finding what works for you and your family. it's a very subjective process.
i would recommend a 19' tandem axle hybrid. but since you live on the West Coast, expect very high prices for used and new, compared to the rest of the country. we drove to Chicago and back to save a lot of money on our hybrid.

Thanks for any and all thoughts on this!
mbopp
Explorer
Oct 01, 2013
DW's biggest joys were being able to load the HTT and fridge w/o popping up, and the fact she now had a real shower and toilet.
A slide was a "must have" for us, even with 2 people it can get tight on a rainy day.
Fridge and bathroom access when folded-up will vary between makes and models, you need to see for yourself if one model will work for you or not.
We tried turtleing once. Found the couch and collapsed table too short (and DW's 5'1")
Setup and teardown are a lot quicker than a PUP. Many items can have their permanent place and don't need to be packed.
Many people cut Reflectix pieces for the windows and use solar covers (Pop-Up Gizmos) to help with heating and cooling.
kknowlton
Explorer II
Oct 01, 2013
Mbopp's experience is similar to ours when we traded our PUP for a HTT. My main problems with the HTT were
1)that, like a PUP, I had to make the bed while sitting on it
2)the front bed end leaked a little when driven in the rain - with potential longterm damage
3) sleeping discomfort for adults when turtled

Loved the open feel with the tented bed ends, but the downside was less insulation from damp weather and from noise from other campers, compared with a fully-enclosed TT.
popupcamping
Explorer
Oct 01, 2013
The beds are always made in my pup.I just raise the roof and slide them out and voila Making beds will have to be a part of your "setup" procedure with a HTT.

Another thing to consider is the bathroom in a HTT. You never listed that as one of the things you were looking for but I am sure you would use it if you had it. Maintaining it will be another thing that you will have to do that you didn't with your pup. Without hookups you may have to deal with your gray tank "during" your stay and of course have to dump and clean the entire system at the dump station on your way out. There you may encounter line ups.

I personally have a solid system in place for set up. We arrive and pick a site. I back in to position,which you could do quicker with a pup, and then send the wife and 2 kids to the playground for 20 minutes. Setting up a pup is a one person job. I have heard of some set up stories on here of needing 2 people to pack up the beds on an HTT. I am sure some do it solo but just some need both people.

Plus there will be a lot more preventative maintenance required with a HTT or TT to avoid water infiltration( windows, roof, bunk ends)

Have you considered the extra space needed to store when not in use?

Don't get me wrong, I am not against an HTT or TT's for that matter but it seems you are trading more for convenience and to have less work and I believe in the long run you will have more.

good luck in your decision
dadmomh
Explorer
Oct 01, 2013
Never did the PUP thing, just went from tent to boat, to boat, to boat, to nothing, then to HTT. We loved our HTT and would still be enjoying it had age not crept up on us....I mean the one where you get SS and Medicare for some time. We moved from our HTT to a TT. Set up and tear down was never an issue in itself. If your tow vehicle and budget allow for it, strongly suggest you get a model with a slide...will make life so much easier, especially with a little one. We only camped with W/E or full hookups, so can't help with the dry camping. We did have occasion to turtle a couple of times....DH is 6'3" and got the sofa and slept sort of angled. I'm 5'5" and got the dinette...also sort of angled. It wasn't something I'd want to do often, but for a couple of times, it did the job. If you decide to do the sheets/blankets as some of us, rather than the sleeping bag thing as others do, but sure to check back about making the beds up from both inside and outside. Makes things much easier. Agree that you need to make the investment in Pop-Up Gizmos first thing. Though we're very happy with our new TT, must admit we miss the openness of the HTT and the great breezes coming through in great weather. Happy Camping!
RoyB
Explorer II
Oct 01, 2013
I would really love the idea of the TENT BEDS folding down from the outside of the HTT. This keeps all of the available space inside opened up.

The older HTT did have early problems with slight warping of the very large tent bed door creating water leaks... I have never followed the newer units to see if that has been fixed or not...

Roy Ken
SurfnCamp
Explorer
Oct 01, 2013
Thanks to everyone for the great info!

We have a lot of experience in our PUP so we're familiar with the pros/cons of tent bunk ends (or so we think)... We've done Gizmos and Reflectix with our PUP as well (plus tons of other mods).

So I think we are just about convinced that a HTT is the next step for us. But a couple of things I'm still trying to wrap my head around.

1. It seems like all the HTTs we've seen online utilize on-board BW/GW tanks - and smallish ones at that. We're used using the cassette toilette and a system of Aquatainers for GW.

None of the CGs we go to have hookups so we are manually adding FW and dumping GW in the CG bathrooms.

While its a real pain (literally) to constantly schlep water to/from the PUP, the ability to replenish FW and empty GW mid-camp without moving the trailer has been advantageous. Plus the ability to pass by the lines at the dump stations on the way out of camp has been a bonus. I'll have to rethink our approach with a HTT.

I calculated that we used about 15 gallons of GW/day on our last trip (incl showers). That only gives us 2 days of camping in a HTT w/a 30G GW tank.

So how are folks dealing with this on longer trips?

I know I can tell DW to cut back on her luxurious showers but that negates one of the pros for going to to a bigger/nicer rig.

I'm not so concerned about FW, as I can always add more from a jug, nor am I concerned about BW as we typically haven't needed to dump our cassette potty mid-trip (opting to use the CG's bathrooms except for late night nature calls.) Its the GW that I'm concerned about for us.

Are there tricks or techniques to avoid going to the dump station just to dump GW mid-trip?

Maybe plumb off a separate GW dump valve that dumps into Aquatainers?

2. In following the "Buy your 2nd trailer first" advice, we are considering a larger HTT now - perhaps a 21-23' with at least one slide-out. Something along the lines of a Roo 233S would be at the high-end of our range.

So the question is, how realistic is it to use a HTT only partially deployed in camp? Does leaving one or two of the bunk ends folded up look too messy (DW concern) or make the trailer feel claustrophobic?

This is also a concern for certain tight spots where we may not have the space to fully deploy.

Which leads me to my concern:

3. I've gotten pretty creative with putting our big heavy PUP into "interesting" placements in less than ideal camping spots using a combination of a front-mounted TV hitch, block/tackle w/electric winch, and the trailer's rolling jack wheel.

Do I need to change my way of thinking with a HTT? Do folks get creative with "off the hitch" maneuvering, or is it a "place it with the TV or forget about it" type of operation? I'm thinking its the later since I don't see HTTs with wheels on the tongue jack.

Thanks again for all the great info!
bikendan
Explorer
Oct 01, 2013
SurfnCamp wrote:
1.I calculated that we used about 15 gallons of GW/day on our last trip (incl showers). That only gives us 2 days of camping in a HTT w/a 30G GW tank.

So how are folks dealing with this on longer trips?

I know I can tell DW to cut back on her luxurious showers but that negates one of the pros for going to to a bigger/nicer rig.

I'm not so concerned about FW, as I can always add more from a jug, nor am I concerned about BW as we typically haven't needed to dump our cassette potty mid-trip (opting to use the CG's bathrooms except for late night nature calls.) Its the GW that I'm concerned about for us.
as a fellow Californian who's also used to having no hookups, i understand your issues.
if you're using 15 gallons a day, that's a lot if you do a lot of dry camping. for the two of us former popup owners, we're used to conserving water. the DW takes a shower every other day.
we can go 3-4 days on the one 30 gallon FW tank.
i use the 6 gallon FW jerry can from Walmart to refill the FW tank.
the BW tank is nothing to worry about. it would take us weeks to fill it.
but the GW tank is the one to worry about. most of us that dry camp a lot, use a tote tank. i have a Barker 15 gallon one that i use strictly for gray water.

2.So the question is, how realistic is it to use a HTT only partially deployed in camp? Does leaving one or two of the bunk ends folded up look too messy (DW concern) or make the trailer feel claustrophobic?
we have a 23SS with two bunk ends. we often leave the rear one closed and it doesn't cause any claustrophobia nor is it messy. the canvas stays along the opening and ours packs flat.

3.Do I need to change my way of thinking with a HTT? Do folks get creative with "off the hitch" maneuvering, or is it a "place it with the TV or forget about it" type of operation? I'm thinking its the later since I don't see HTTs with wheels on the tongue jack.
unless you carry a electric trailer dolly, you can forget doing what you're talking about.
big difference between maneuvering a popup vs. a full height 5000lbs. tandem axle HTT.:E

Thanks again for all the great info!
SurfnCamp
Explorer
Oct 01, 2013
Dan,
Thanks for the additional info.

1. 15G of GW/day is a bit extreme but it is worse-case with 3 of us showering.

But it sounds like GW capacity can be addressed by partial dumps into a tote (or totes). DW will be happy (though I will be back to schlepping GW)!

2.Glad to hear that its feasible to enjoy the HTT only partially deployed (model-dependent). Another big benefit over a PUP.

3. As for manual maneuvering of the HTT, I guess we'll have to get better at site selection and I'll have to get more skilled at trailer placement. Although I do like the challenge of building a lightweight electric dolly and I'll have this extra electric winch to cannibalize... Hmm... I smell a winter project!

Thanks again!