Forum Discussion

Explorer

Oct 14, 2014

Issues with my 2001 F-250 7.3L transmission continue...

Ooookay...Here's the deal. I bought it in '07, have been using it to tow my 15K fifth-wheel since then. I move maybe 2-3 times a year then I stay put. Previous owner was a rancher in TX and there was a gooseneck hitch in the bed I couldn't get out (welded) so I'm sure he was hauling heavy loads as well. Five days after I got to Woodland Park CO this summer (I've always taken care to pull over on steep long inclines and had an Edge Chip plugged in off and on -- I know, I need to upgrade) it started failing to shift up. First it seemed like the higher gears, then later almost exclusively btwn 1st and 2nd. It would just rev higher until you pulled your foot back and then it would usually shift. Worse in Warm weather, often nothing in cooler weather.

I took it to a trusted guy up there and he couldn't get it to do it. Thought I'd wait and see how it does down in Phoenix and it's just as bad here, but -- plot twist -- it developed something new just as I arrived in town on the trip here. It's a popping, clunk of a sound -- sounds like a cookie tray being flexed. They thought it was ball joints but fized those (they were due) and the noise was still there. I got it over to a guy I really like and trust who is really affordable ("A" rating with BBB and no complaints in 3 years...4.5 out of five stars on the ratings and all the guys in the shops around him say he's oozing integrity and works on all their cars) and he thought it might be the fly wheel but got in there and spun it and can't see any cracks. He says there might be hairline fractures in the transmission housing that could make the shifting thing worse in warm weather...

The popping sound is a lot worse when the trailer is hooked up. I had to crawl the last 6 miles to the park so slowly it took be almost an hour to get there. It doesn't do it in reverse for some reason -- hooked up or not. It's worse when you accelerate and I have to keep the pressure absolutely even or it would lapse into these popping convulsions that only a few times actually made the whole truck jerk a little. It sounds like it's coming from right down at my feet, towards the center. He says he's 80% sure it's all transmission issues and says there's a slight chance there's some injector issues but really doesn't think that's the case. Seems that with both the shifting and the popping -- and the history -- this transmission is really not...healthy..

So now I have to decide if I want hime to take it apart, examine everything, try to upgrade everything we can, replace the housing and hope that when we put it back together everything is resolved, or just put another transmission in. I know Allison transmissions are the gold-standard and would eventually like to go that route but the recession destroyed me and I'm just now getting comfortable again and looking to pay off my rig and really don't want to go there quite yet. So I'm looking at getting a used transmission. Seems to me anything I get will be in far better shape than one that's been doing heavy towing for 13 years. I'm also on a mission to lighten my load by at least 1000 lbs.

He says that's what he would do. Any thoughts? The guy who drove it in Colorado said the transmission felt really good to him (it wasn't doing the revving thing that day and had not yet started the popping). The popping thing just sounds so awful that you cringe the whole time you're driving it. The first garage I had it at the guy took it for a drive and didn't get out of the parking lot. Declared it unsafe to drive.

It's almost a crumpling sound. But he's ruled out the suspension because he can really beat it up on bumpy roads and it doesn't sound any worse.

I'd appreciate any input/advice. I'm female, former owner of 3 Subarus so this is new territory. Also wondering if it's anything I did that could have caused the present problems. Met a guy at the pool the other day from Canada who drives semis and says it isn't. Says 15K lbs isn't too much weight a truck like mine. Does it seem par for the course that a ttransmission that's been hauling for 13 years might just finally******out? How long would you expect one doing heavy work to last? And how can I best take care of the next one? And what's the best chip system for an upgrade? Max transmission temp? I didn't like driving here withoutt the gauges and didn't know there were big climbs between Peyson and Phoenix. I swear that last big one is what did it in.

I'm just not comfortable with taking it apart and putting it together again only to find out it's still messed up. And at least the new "old" tranny will have a 1 year warranty.

He's estimating $1500 to $1600 for the new (old) tranny/labor out the door....

Tow Vehicles

Swmpbgy1
Explorer
Oct 23, 2014
PUCampin wrote:
Swmpbgy1 wrote:
PUCampin wrote:
I know you said it is an 01, but double check the off chance and see if the transmission cooling lines have the pass through in the bottom of the radiator. For a short time Ford decided to delete this and rely strictly on the oil air heat exchanger, which does not work well when going slow pulling a hill or backing up! I believe in mid 2000 model year they reverted back, but it is worth a quick look. If you do not have the pass through, you will need a radiator for a later year that has the pass through.

PUCampin:

Could you please elaborate on this a little more??? I have a 2000 Excursion 7.3l that when I tow will puke tranny fluid while backing into a camping site. What exactly am I looking for? Do you have any pics of the set up that you are describing?

Swampbgy1

Most vehicles with an automatic transmission use a water/oil heat exchanger (transmission oil flows through tubes immersed in coolant) in the bottom of the radiator to cool the transmission fluid. This type of heat exchanger is quite effective and works as long as the engine is running whether or not the vehicle is moving. For most vehicles this is all the transmission cooling necessary.

HD vehicles that are designed to tow often have a secondary cooler that looks like a small radiator. This is an oil air heat exchanger. These are not as effective as the oil water cooler, and they only work when a good deal of air is flowing over them like when the vehicle is moving.

Between build dates 1/5/98 and 2/6/2000 for SD and Excursion, someone at Ford decided to remove the oil/water exchanger in the radiator leaving ONLY the oil air heat exchanger to cool the transmission. Since this only works well with air flowing, guess when it does not work well. Driving slow on hilly or windy roads, and backing and manuvering. Since there is no oil/water exchanger to cool during this type of driving, and backing is a lot of slipping the fluid heats up FAST. If it was warm from a hard pull already, this happens even faster.

The fluid can then come out a breather, or it can leak past the input shaft seal and drip from the bell housing. Once cool the seal will seal again and you won't continue to leak. However, the number of times the seal will reseal is limited before it will continue to leak.

After 2/6/2000 Ford went back to including the oil/water exchanger.

I do not have pictures, but it is easy to tell. Follow your transmission line from the transmission to the front of the engine. It will eith go into the bottom of the radiator out and into a second cooler then back to the transmission, or it will go just through the small second cooler and not into the bottom of the radiator.

If you do not have the oil/water exchanger, the best thing to do is replace the radiator with a newer one that has the exchanger. You can also swap the small stock air/oil cooler with one from a 6.0 for additional cooling.

The SD and Excursion were not the only vehicles Ford did this on. My 2004 Explorer V8 was the same. No oil/water exchanger in the radiator, just a small stacked plate oil/air cooler sandwitched between the radiator and condensor, mounted down low below the influance of the engine fan and shroud (meaning the only time there was much airflow over it was when the veghicle was moving). I pulled my sig TT with the 04 Explorer up and down mountains, and discovered this the hard way. It did ok, but like you would leak fluid after arriving at a site or home while backing into place. The next morning it was fine.

I took it to a dealer and they wanted to remove and inspect the trans for $800 just to attempt to troubleshoot the issue. I declined and did some research. That is how I found out that when too hot, the fluid can leak past the shaft seal until it cools. I ended up trading the Explorer in due to my family outgrowing it before I could do anything about the cooling

The member Mark Kovalsky (who posted in this thread) is a Ford transmission expert, and is who I learned this from. He can tell you what radiator you will need and what steps you can take to get the most of your transmission.

Hope this helps, you are welcome to PM me too.

Daniel

Awesome write up....I need to check my setup, but based on my leak in reverse after a long tow, I believe I have the oil to air setup as you've described. I will pm you as well as Mr. Kovalsky as to the setup I need.

Thanks again!!!!!
Swmpgy1
buddyIam
Explorer
Oct 22, 2014
cannesdo

Congratulations , I also must give my thanks again. Very informative post.
BurbMan
Explorer II
Oct 22, 2014
Glad you got it fixed!! You definitely need an alignment after the ball joint replacement, and surprised they didn't do that as part of the job. Biggest effect is going to be accelerated tire wear, and possibly pulling to one side or hard to keep pointed in a straight line on the hiway. Depends on how far out of alignment spec it is. If it's uncomfortable to drive, I would get it aligned now rather than wait. If you can live with it, then wait until you get new tires,.
cannesdo
Explorer
Oct 22, 2014
Truck is done. Running great with the new HD tranny. Feels really good. Steering is strange though...I think I need an alignment after that ball-joint replacement. Ford guy felt it when he drove it too. Thinks it might be "toed in". Getting new tires sometime in the next few months. Think it's ok to wait for that or is it important to get that straightened out right now?

Truck just feels stronger. I dropped it off at the wrong location and he went over and got it and said he was scared all the way back. Afraid he wasn't going to make it. I told him he should have heard what it sounded like pulling 15K lbs. He told me I could just use the gauges on the Edge chip and not alter any of the PCM settings. I could swear any time I've even turned the unit on the truck has more power. Just taking off from a stop I can feel it. ? So I'll probably just do that for now. Didn't come with the cooler upgrade He ordered one separately just in case, so that should help as well.

So...there you go...crumpling popcorn sounds plus 3000 min. RPMs to get from 1st to 2nd in a 7.3 2001 F250? -- it's the tranny.

Appreciate your help, Folks!
Mark_Kovalsky
Explorer
Oct 22, 2014
cannesdo wrote:
Ok, good, thanks, Mark. My truck should be done today. I'll follow up to confirm. I guess this new HD tranny they're putting in has a mechanical diode also but he assures me it's a huge improvement over the old one.

I think there is a miscommunication here. There is no improved mechanical diode for the 4R100. There is a different type of one way clutch called a sprag clutch that replaces the mechanical diode.
buddyIam
Explorer
Oct 21, 2014
PUCamping

Thank you very much. I will get that info to him.
PUCampin
Explorer
Oct 21, 2014
buddyIam wrote:
Pucamping,

I'll have to let my nephew know about this. He had his 99 4x4 transmission refit after having the blow out problems. Everything seems fine now but are you saying some trucks only had the oil to air.

His is a 99 ford 4x4 srw one ton

Yes, some trucks only have the oil/air cooler and not the radiator loop. It was only 1999-2000 Super Duty and 2000 Excursions built between 1/5/98 and 2/6/2000, then they reverted back to using both coolers. There was a TSB issued TSB 00-24-4 where the owner could get a newer radiator installed WITH the loop, but it was up to the owner to hear about it and bring it in. If you do not have the oil/water loop, it is a good idea to replace the radiator with one that has it. A popular mod also is to use the oil/air cooler from a 6.0 in place of the stock oil/air cooler.
buddyIam
Explorer
Oct 21, 2014
Pucamping,

I'll have to let my nephew know about this. He had his 99 4x4 transmission refit after having the blow out problems. Everything seems fine now but are you saying some trucks only had the oil to air.

His is a 99 ford 4x4 srw one ton
PUCampin
Explorer
Oct 21, 2014
Swmpbgy1 wrote:
PUCampin wrote:
I know you said it is an 01, but double check the off chance and see if the transmission cooling lines have the pass through in the bottom of the radiator. For a short time Ford decided to delete this and rely strictly on the oil air heat exchanger, which does not work well when going slow pulling a hill or backing up! I believe in mid 2000 model year they reverted back, but it is worth a quick look. If you do not have the pass through, you will need a radiator for a later year that has the pass through.

PUCampin:

Could you please elaborate on this a little more??? I have a 2000 Excursion 7.3l that when I tow will puke tranny fluid while backing into a camping site. What exactly am I looking for? Do you have any pics of the set up that you are describing?

Swampbgy1

Most vehicles with an automatic transmission use a water/oil heat exchanger (transmission oil flows through tubes immersed in coolant) in the bottom of the radiator to cool the transmission fluid. This type of heat exchanger is quite effective and works as long as the engine is running whether or not the vehicle is moving. For most vehicles this is all the transmission cooling necessary.

HD vehicles that are designed to tow often have a secondary cooler that looks like a small radiator. This is an oil air heat exchanger. These are not as effective as the oil water cooler, and they only work when a good deal of air is flowing over them like when the vehicle is moving.

Between build dates 1/5/98 and 2/6/2000 for SD and Excursion, someone at Ford decided to remove the oil/water exchanger in the radiator leaving ONLY the oil air heat exchanger to cool the transmission. Since this only works well with air flowing, guess when it does not work well. Driving slow on hilly or windy roads, and backing and manuvering. Since there is no oil/water exchanger to cool during this type of driving, and backing is a lot of slipping the fluid heats up FAST. If it was warm from a hard pull already, this happens even faster.

The fluid can then come out a breather, or it can leak past the input shaft seal and drip from the bell housing. Once cool the seal will seal again and you won't continue to leak. However, the number of times the seal will reseal is limited before it will continue to leak.

After 2/6/2000 Ford went back to including the oil/water exchanger.

I do not have pictures, but it is easy to tell. Follow your transmission line from the transmission to the front of the engine. It will eith go into the bottom of the radiator out and into a second cooler then back to the transmission, or it will go just through the small second cooler and not into the bottom of the radiator.

If you do not have the oil/water exchanger, the best thing to do is replace the radiator with a newer one that has the exchanger. You can also swap the small stock air/oil cooler with one from a 6.0 for additional cooling.

The SD and Excursion were not the only vehicles Ford did this on. My 2004 Explorer V8 was the same. No oil/water exchanger in the radiator, just a small stacked plate oil/air cooler sandwitched between the radiator and condensor, mounted down low below the influance of the engine fan and shroud (meaning the only time there was much airflow over it was when the veghicle was moving). I pulled my sig TT with the 04 Explorer up and down mountains, and discovered this the hard way. It did ok, but like you would leak fluid after arriving at a site or home while backing into place. The next morning it was fine.

I took it to a dealer and they wanted to remove and inspect the trans for $800 just to attempt to troubleshoot the issue. I declined and did some research. That is how I found out that when too hot, the fluid can leak past the shaft seal until it cools. I ended up trading the Explorer in due to my family outgrowing it before I could do anything about the cooling

The member Mark Kovalsky (who posted in this thread) is a Ford transmission expert, and is who I learned this from. He can tell you what radiator you will need and what steps you can take to get the most of your transmission.

Hope this helps, you are welcome to PM me too.

Daniel
Jarlaxle
Explorer II
Oct 18, 2014
majorgator wrote:
blderman wrote:
The 4r100 in your truck is not know for longevity or durability when towing heavy. Your best bet is to replace it with a BTS or John Wood transmission and never worry about it again. Gonna run you about $5000 though.

Actually, the 4R100 (manual) is well known for longevity and durability. It's the E4OD (auto) that everyone complains about. I actually find that the E4OD is a good tranny, but like many, proper and frequent maintanence is required.

To the OP, if you bought it from a rancher, then it's probably been very well used and abused. I've been involved with farming for most of my life, but I never can understand why so many people of this lifestyle fail to maintain their vehicles. If I were you, I'd copy/paste your post to a truck forum. Go to something like ford-trucks.com or powerstroke.org.

The 4R100 IS an E4OD! It's a beefed-up version of the same transmission with a new name, no more and no less.