I was interested what had to be said on the Lance forum so I signed up. This is a cut and paste from the link that was posted, hope it is legible.
FYI, Lance specs the 950s at 2820 lbs dry.
From the Lance truck camper forum,
I am new to this forum thing - please advise. Over the yearsI have owned 3-new new RAM 2500's (1995, 1999, 2006) and they all worked perfectly when hauling a truck camper - the only mod was suspension air bags. I purchased a 2014 RAM 2500 in OCT 2013 and it will NOT (as in impossible) haul my Lance 950-S. The coil spring suspension used for the 2014 RAM is not compatible with hauling any truck camper. NO RV dealer (including Lance dealers) have a solution. Chrysler is working on the matter but ALSO has NO solution.
Does anyone out there know how to modify a 2014 RAM 2500 to enable it to haul a truck camper??
Doug, aka Atchafalaya Man
Senior Member (Camp Host)
February 27, 2014 9:51 AM
I'd be going straight to a good spring shop to see if they can MAKE you some coil springs (or helpers) that will allow you to haul a heavier load. Dodge never thought of this problem, yet, and probably not the spring shop either....yet.
2003 Lance 1130, 2005 Red Dodge Dually Quad Cab
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Dave&Nancy
Senior Member
February 27, 2014 10:30 AM
I have no solution for you, I think it's sad that Dodge would go that direction, I believe GMC did this in the early 60's with the same problem, they put coil's on there 3/4 ton, the ride was squarely even if it was empty especially after the shocks wore out which was about 15000 miles.
2000 Lance 1121, Solar Panel, Generator, 19" Samsung LED Flat Screen with LG BlueRay, Sat dish, Two 96AH AGM Batteries, refurbishing and upgrading everything.
1999 Ford Super Duty F-350 Dually 4X4, Chipped 7.3L Power Stroke 4.10 gears 6-speed Manual, Old School Lock Out Hubs with actual Mechanical shifter on the floor where it belongs, Super Hitch, 48" Extensions Fast Guns. Pulling a 16'X7' Cargo with a Polaris Ranger (Electric) Lots of good stuff.
Moore, OK
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Jacster Trixter
Senior Member
February 27, 2014 10:33 AM
Beyond Doug's suggestion, which is the best idea, you may consider either taking the depreciation hit and buying either an older model...again...or a GM or Ford. OOOOOR get a trailer.
Good luck.
Jacster
www.jacstersjourney.com
Sir Buckminster Lancelot:
(Affectionately known as "Buck" The Trusty White Steed)
2011 Chevrolet Silverado 3500 LTZ, DRW 4x4 Duramax
2011 Lance 1181 with all the trimmings
Torklift Tiedowns with Fastguns
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Joseph Smith
Member
February 27, 2014 10:38 AM
That is unreal I own a 2011 ford f-350 6.7 and it's a beast
Hope you can work that out
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sugarhillctd
Lifetime Member
February 27, 2014 11:50 AM
Last edited by sugarhillctd February 27, 2014 11:51 AM
Don,
Contact Kelderman (www.kelderman.com) and see if they have anything in the works. They have a great system that will replace the entire rear suspension of a pickup with a 4 link airbag system.
You might end up with a system that puts us all to shame.
Good luck!
John & Cathy
2012 Lance 855S
2012 Chevy 2500HD CC sb 4x4
K100RS, DRZ400
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DonF
Lifetime Member
February 27, 2014 3:59 PM
Originally Posted by DonF:
I am new to this forum thing - please advise. Over the yearsI have owned 3-new new RAM 2500's (1995, 1999, 2006) and they all worked perfectly when hauling a truck camper - the only mod was suspension air bags. I purchased a 2014 RAM 2500 in OCT 2013 and it will NOT (as in impossible) haul my Lance 950-S. The coil spring suspension used for the 2014 RAM is not compatible with hauling any truck camper. NO RV dealer (including Lance dealers) have a solution. Chrysler is working on the matter but ALSO has NO solution.
Does anyone out there know how to modify a 2014 RAM 2500 to enable it to haul a truck camper??
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DonF
Lifetime Member
February 27, 2014 4:13 PM
Originally Posted by DonF:
Originally Posted by DonF:
I am new to this forum thing - please advise. Over the yearsI have owned 3-new new RAM 2500's (1995, 1999, 2006) and they all worked perfectly when hauling a truck camper - the only mod was suspension air bags. I purchased a 2014 RAM 2500 in OCT 2013 and it will NOT (as in impossible) haul my Lance 950-S. The coil spring suspension used for the 2014 RAM is not compatible with hauling any truck camper. NO RV dealer (including Lance dealers) have a solution. Chrysler is working on the matter but ALSO has NO solution.
Does anyone out there know how to modify a 2014 RAM 2500 to enable it to haul a truck camper??
I have checked several RV suspension sources - it seems they were blindside by the real coil spring issue and are in the process of finding a solution, but are still a "couple" of months away.
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Gregg
Member
February 27, 2014 6:06 PM
Does the 3500 have coils on the back also, maybe you could get airbags that fit in the coils. Ok I looked online at Dodge, didn't you know ahead of time the 2500 had rear coils, it looks like the load rating is 3140 lbs. but its hard to add any overloads. Too bad you didn't get the 3500 with a CGWR 32,000 lbs. and a haul of 6700 lb. I'll bet it could haul the biggest camper and a new Ford and Chevy at the same time, it makes my 2003 3500 look like a whimp
2003 Dodge 3500 quad cab, SRW, long bed, 4x4, Cummins , Banks 6 gun, Banks exhaust, Firestone Airbags, Mag-Hytec trans, rear diff covers, Buckstop bumper, Aerotank 55 gal tank. 2004 Lance 1070 camper.
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DonF
Lifetime Member
February 27, 2014 8:11 PM
Originally Posted by Gregg:
Does the 3500 have coils on the back also, maybe you could get airbags that fit in the coils. Ok I looked online at Dodge, didn't you know ahead of time the 2500 had rear coils, it looks like the load rating is 3140 lbs. but its hard to add any overloads. Too bad you didn't get the 3500 with a CGWR 32,000 lbs. and a haul of 6700 lb. I'll bet it could haul the biggest camper and a new Ford and Chevy at the same time, it makes my 2003 3500 look like a whimp
I've has three(3) RAM 2500's and they all worked great with only air bag suspension. Never though Chrysler would blunder to such a degree. Here is some Background: My experience with coil springs used for the rear suspension of a 2014 RAM 2500 pickup truck verifies Newton’s law of physics; “An object in motion tends to stay in motion”. The 2-point anchoring system of a coil spring (one end anchored to an immovable object and the other end to a movable object) is very well demonstrated in children’s playgrounds where one end of the coil is anchored to the ground, the other end to a play horse. The kid on the horse is in for a WILD RIDE.
On the other hand a 3-point anchoring suspension system, such as leaf springs, works to stabilize fore and aft motion while minimizing both lateral AND diagonal motion. Not well suited for the playground but an excellent system for the rear suspension of a pickup truck, especially for a truck hauling a cab-over camper that strains lateral movement.
Suspension Air bags supplement a 3-point anchoring system system (leaf spring) with two addition points for a total of five, which improves stability and increases load capacity; I’ve driven more than ½ million carefree miles with that combination.
Air bags do little to improve stability on a 2-point (coils spring) system they only increase load carrying capacity - the WILD RIDE remains.
Why do the Chrysler engineers NOT know that?
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sugarhillctd
Lifetime Member
February 28, 2014 9:08 AM
Last edited by sugarhillctd February 28, 2014 9:10 AM
Air bags do little to improve stability on a 2-point (coils spring) system they only increase load carrying capacity - the WILD RIDE remains.
Why do the Chrysler engineers NOT know that?
I really doubt that the engineers made this change just for fun.
They must employ some very sophisticated computer design when they make such a significant change.
The simple fact is that folks that put a camper in the bed of their pickup are such a minuscule percentage of total pickup sales that it hardly registers.
For the large majority that place a low, heavy load in their truck bed, the coil springs work well- I expect that the engineers tested the new suspension with just that load in mind. The relative few of us that want to carry a 3000+#, 7 foot tall camper are not who they are designing for.
By the way, even without your bad experience as a lesson for all of us- when I buy a truck to carry a TC, the suspension under the truck is one of the first things I look at. Coil spring rear suspension would be a definite NO- mostly because of all the suspension add-ons readily available for leaf springs and the inability to add on to coil springs.
Just my opinion, of course.
John & Cathy
2012 Lance 855S
2012 Chevy 2500HD CC sb 4x4
K100RS, DRZ400
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Doug, aka Atchafalaya Man
Senior Member (Camp Host)
February 28, 2014 9:23 AM
I agree with you, SugarhillCTD. We are a real small group of users.
In the matrix of tests that the engineers do to determine a new suspension package, one of them is probably how it rides totally empty while going to the grocery store, which is something the old country folks who bought a heavy duty truck in years past never worried about.
2003 Lance 1130, 2005 Red Dodge Dually Quad Cab
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BillTex
Member
February 28, 2014 9:29 AM
John...good analysis.
What is even more puzzling is; didn't Dodge just go through the same with their 1/2 ton and then change back to leaf spring suspension?
Bill
2006 Chevy D/A CC
Eagle Cap 850
25'Airstream Excella
"Good People Drink Good Beer"-Hunter S Thompson
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From MH to TT
Member
March 2, 2014 9:49 PM
Your truck should have come with a small brochure titled Consumer Information Truck-Camper Loading. It lists the trucks that can and can't haul a camper and the proper loading if they can. It has been in the glove box of every new truck I have driven.
2014 1685
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bens170
Member
March 3, 2014 12:09 AM
Last edited by bens170 March 3, 2014 8:55 AM
What were the Dodge engineers using when they made the decision to put coil springs suspension in a pickup truck. By any chance an Ouija board and dart board used at the same time? The US Army had a 1/4 ton Multi-Purpose vehicle called the M151A1/A2 that had the coil spring rear suspension. On a slightly curved asphalt the vehicle had a tendency to roll over if the driver over-corrected. After the vehicle had served its purpose it was cut in half, and could not be sold at a military auction except as scrap metal and not to be used on the street. Talk about fraud, waste and abuse.
I hope that you will be able to work something out concerning your truck, to your advantage.
Ben
2006 Ford F-350 SD, CC, XLT, 4x4, dually, lifted 6", Fox Racing Shocks w/Reservoir,
7 Toyo Open Country Xtreme A/T II LT285/75R/17E tires, AFE Stage 2 Cold Air Induction System, Super Springs Anti Sway Stops. 4 MKW Model 26 Rims 3 OEM 17" Rims, OEM Class V hitch & camper package, 4.10 gears front & rear diffs & 2 Odyssey AGM batteries. 6.0L PSD w/ 5 spd Torqshift auto transmission.
2003 Lance 1161 TC w/Torklift frame mounted tie-downs & Torklift basic Springloaded Turnbuckles
Anza, CA
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jarheade6
Senior Member
March 3, 2014 7:27 AM
Gee Bens those M151s were a great wild ride!!! LOL I drove them thousands of miles with radios in the back. No seat belts, no doors and no stability! Its also amazing how fast a determined 20 year old Marine could get them to go on the highway. They had 50 on the speedo but our goal was to wind them up to the 'O' in "miles per hour" at the bottom of the speedo. Just don't flinch the steering wheel or your going over! 4 wheel coil! Really, is anybody that stupid again?
I need to go camping!!!
Bob
96 F350 CC 7.3 PSD 4X4 SRW Curt Front Receiver, Firestone Air Bags, Bilstein Shocks. 2011 Lance 850 Pulling Mako 1801 w/125 Mercury
Texas
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DonF
Lifetime Member
March 4, 2014 9:41 PM
Chrysler s trying to appease me - "trying" is the operative word. this is my latest replay to tying...
Kurt...As I have said many times, “My need is for a LONG-BED, SHORT WHEEL BASE pickup truck to haul my Lance 950S cabover camper”. I want a “TRUCK” equipped in the manner of the “Laramie/Big Horn” style vehicle. As far as I know, and as far as Manny has been able to research, there is NO SUCH “ANIMAL” (long bed-short wheel base) available anywhere in the NATION WIDE Chrysler dealership inventory. AND THAT IS PRECISELY WHY I HAD TO CUSTOM ORDER MY 2014 RAM 2500 AS AN SLT MODEL WITH SELECTED OPTIONS.
This is NOT a Chrysler specific problem. The entire pickup manufacturing industry has moved away from accommodating the needs of “truckers” and has directed its marketing toward the family who simply wants to haul their kids and a couple of bags of groceries in a macho looking vehicle.
Perhaps I am a dying breed who no longer matters to the current pickup truck manufacturers. However, I (and a couple others) do still exist. I have been dedicated to Chrysler for more than 35 years beginning with a 1978 Dodge and continuing with 3-RAM 2500 SLT's (1995, 1999, 2006) and am now faced with a lack of confidence in the 2014 RAM 2500 I just purchased.
It is my desire to replace my inadequate and unsafe RAM 2500 and move up to a RAM 3500 with air bag assist suspension.
As stated, there are/is no “in-stock” vehicles available that fits my needs. Your email inferred that I “MUST" select a replacement from “in-stock” or "can be obtained on a dealer trade”.
Is that inference correct? Or can a replacement be one that fits my needs?
I will be in tomorrow to "get with Manny".
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elkhornsun
Lifetime Member
March 5, 2014 12:59 PM
The OP confirmed what I suspected that the new RAM suspension changes were going to entail risk for customers/guinea pigs and not likely to be easily modified. The early adopter are the pioneers and you can spot them by the arrows in their backs. An old saying but it applies to new automotive technology that may be great or may be a boondoggle. Many examples from all the car companies.
The coil suspension greatly handicapped the Ford Expedition for serious towing and I remember the 1960's Chevy 1/2 tons with the rear coil springs and went with Dodge trucks instead for that very reason.
Actual heavy hauling and heavy towing are atypical uses for the majority of pickups and it is not a good idea to trust the manufacturer much less the dealers to get complete and accurate and relevant information. Even the truck reviews are worthless for the most part as they very seldom provide any information that is critical of the manufacturers who buy ad space in their publications (with the notable exception of Consumer Reports).
I bought a 1998 Tahoe and realized later that the brakes were terrible (upgraded in 1999 to disc brakes at all 4 wheels) but never saw mention of this in any reviews I could find. Lots of aftermarket fixes quickly appeared which is a good indication that there are major defects with a particular vehicle. Problem is that with a brand new model you take a gamble that there are only going to be minor problems.
"the illegal we do immediately; the unconstitutional takes a little longer" Henry Kissinger
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From MH to TT
Member
March 6, 2014 9:57 PM
I'm still curious if the truck had the truck camper brochure (as required by law that the dealer have it in the truck), and if it lists his truck as being safe for truck camper use. Also would like to know if the truck just feels "different" from prior leaf spring trucks. How is it determined to be unsafe?
I frequent the TDR and I have not seen any comments from members there that the new trucks are unsafe for camper application. He can't be the first person that purchased one and has a camper.
2014 1685
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Shrimpy
Member
March 7, 2014 6:09 AM
All the info you could ever need.
http://www.rambodybuilder.com/uopt_files/frame.htm
Looked through the numbers. The 2500 has a payload rating from 1900-3200 lbs depending on how it's equipped. Gas engines have higher payloads because they are lighter.
Most are very close to 2500lbs give or take.
2010 Lance 1181 with pretty much every option.Dinette to Couch mod. 2012 Ram 3500 Laramie, 6x6. Torklift tiedowns and SuperHitch with BigWig rear Swaybar. Greenback, TN Okeechobee, Florida.
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From MH to TT
Member
11 hours ago
So looking through the specs, only a couple of combinations would come close to the weight he is trying to carry. If he has 4x4 or diesel he is at least 500 over weight, and perhaps up to 1000. I'm not sure he did his homework, and the dealer didn't do him any favors assuming he told them how much he was going to carry and checked the dimensions.
He also mentions he would like the air suspension 3500. What makes him think it will be any different. The only advantage is self leveling.
2014 1685
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