Lancer Camper. Inc Sold Out

Kayteg1 wrote:

monkey44 wrote:

Kayteg1 wrote:
I've seen positive changes thought.
Caltrans- who build Benicia/Martinez bridge in CA with triple time and quadruple cost overrun, in last years when Bay Bridge needed repairs or rebuild - hire smaller contractors.
Private contractor build Las Vegas monorail not only for few millions less, but also few months ahead of schedule.
Somebody is putting some common sense into the corporation madness.

That's not really small business tho ... I think of small business as ONE guy building one or two homes at a time, with a small crew and watching how the finish looks and acts. NOT, a guy with a builder's license, sitting at a desk and building hundred-home tracts. He's just running the money end, and has little to do with quality.

I single-handed build big house and it took me 6 years, although big delay was triggered by bank freezing my credit line.
That worked for me as I could live in old house in the corner of the lot and build new one on the center, but such situation is not going to work when you build for profit.
I know the Bay Bridge contractors are not really small business, but unlike Caltrans - they do have to be competitive and as results save taxpayer's billions of dollars, doing much better job.

Good for you - bet you appreciate it more too, and have the quality you provided. The reason I use that example, I built custom homes in California for years, in rural areas. And, yes I had a crew of three, and me. And as far as quality control, my fingers touched every part of the builds -- One, pride in workmanship, and two, had a reputation to maintain in a small community ... so the type of quality control (or lack of) in corporate building will never fly in small town rural areas. Builders that cut corners in those areas didn't last long. We had small time businesses that were a bit more expensive than "driving into the city", but the customer service from a business owner that meets you at the door and wants your business means a lot and has value of its own.

And it's not always about "keeping customers" for the income, it's often about keeping customers because you want your customers happy with your product. You need both to survive in small business.

HMS Beagle wrote:

SidecarFlip wrote:
Palomino had one foot in the grave when FR acquired them, were building campers based on 25 year old designs that leaked and had shoddy workmanship.

That's pretty much S.O.P. in the RV business, eh?

Just walked through the Pleasanton RV show and they were all peas in a pod with a very few rare exceptions.

I'm here to tell you that the quality and fit and finish had improved 110% since FR started bankrolling Palomino amd because I'm friendly with management in Colon, I can tell you that with FR, it's hands off as well. Palomino calls their own shots, so long as they are profitable for Buffer / Berkshire Hathaway, everything is Kosher.

I like the new design and implementation and I'm partial to them because they are a Michigan company as well. I believe in supporting local / state business, probably why first change I made on my unit was canning the WFCO and installing a PD converter, PD is also here in Michigan (Marshall) and Thetford's world headquarters is here as well, I think Walled Lake.

Still going to keep my Indiana / Ohio relocation for Lance because transportation costs are much less than Kalifornia to anywhere. I'd say Michigan as well but Indiana and Ohio have a more business friendly state government plus Indiana is Right to Work. Don't think Kalifornia is right to anything.

monkey44 wrote:

Kayteg1 wrote:
I've seen positive changes thought.
Caltrans- who build Benicia/Martinez bridge in CA with triple time and quadruple cost overrun, in last years when Bay Bridge needed repairs or rebuild - hire smaller contractors.
Private contractor build Las Vegas monorail not only for few millions less, but also few months ahead of schedule.
Somebody is putting some common sense into the corporation madness.

That's not really small business tho ... I think of small business as ONE guy building one or two homes at a time, with a small crew and watching how the finish looks and acts. NOT, a guy with a builder's license, sitting at a desk and building hundred-home tracts. He's just running the money end, and has little to do with quality.

I single-handed build big house and it took me 6 years, although big delay was triggered by bank freezing my credit line.
That worked for me as I could live in old house in the corner of the lot and build new one on the center, but such situation is not going to work when you build for profit.
I know the Bay Bridge contractors are not really small business, but unlike Caltrans - they do have to be competitive and as results save taxpayer's billions of dollars, doing much better job.

My 2002 Lance did show good workmanship, but engineers had to be on drugs.
The wood frame under slide had metal channel as reinforcement.
The jacks mounts had metal chanel in the corner as reinforcement.
But the 2 metal pieces are 2" shy to meet and the stapled wood connection is design to separate. Will this improve with merge?
And no matter what you say, 3/4" x 1.5" piece of wood is not adequate support for slide that has potential to put 1500lb load on it.
Lancaster is remote area in California and I think taking the plant from there will strongly affect local economy.
On other hand, Las Vegas has huge amount of empty warehouses that were build in blooming economy 10 years ago and never occupy.

SidecarFlip wrote:
Palomino had one foot in the grave when FR acquired them, were building campers based on 25 year old designs that leaked and had shoddy workmanship.

That's pretty much S.O.P. in the RV business, eh?

Just walked through the Pleasanton RV show and they were all peas in a pod with a very few rare exceptions.

They are keeping the original owners on (at least for now) so almost looks like a deal to get Lance more buying power for materials / supplies and a retirement package in the future for the current owners.

Camping World bought out the local RV dealer and did that with the owner for one year. He also had to sign a five year non-compete within 250 mile radius. The only people that really benefitted besides the owners were the employees. Their salary increased, picked up paid vacation and health benefits. We all know how the customers are treated.

A factory rep left a very bad taste in my mouth at a trade show many years ago when we were looking for a new TC. I asked if Lance would be using aluminum framing in the future like some others were now. The rep told me that wood was the only framing any RV should ever have. Aluminum was garbage and Lance would NEVER use aluminum. NEVER!!! He was adamant about this.

Go look at their old brochures. One year the say aluminum is the best, the next year they are touting different roof material as the best. They do this time after time when the change build strategies. Usually they were a year or two behind the others waiting for the technology to be proven and so were defending their use of older techniques. It all depends on the perspective of who is analyzing the numbers.

The good thing is it will take a year or two before the impact is really felt in the production line so if you were wanting a new Lance, you still have time to get it with decent quality.

sandblast wrote:
I would not be at all surprised if REV pulls out of California entirely and relocates the company to a state more conducive to business operations. Indiana comes right to mind. So does Ohio (Nu-Camp Cirrus) is in Ohio.



Very possible

If they do move, I'll place a bet on them going to either Nevada or Arizona for better weather than anywhere in Midwest. Closer to thier biggest customer base (CA) and both States offering big tax incentives.

Kayteg1 wrote:
I've seen positive changes thought.
Caltrans- who build Benicia/Martinez bridge in CA with triple time and quadruple cost overrun, in last years when Bay Bridge needed repairs or rebuild - hire smaller contractors.
Private contractor build Las Vegas monorail not only for few millions less, but also few months ahead of schedule.
Somebody is putting some common sense into the corporation madness.

That's not really small business tho ... I think of small business as ONE guy building one or two homes at a time, with a small crew and watching how the finish looks and acts. NOT, a guy with a builder's license, sitting at a desk and building hundred-home tracts. He's just running the money end, and has little to do with quality.

I've seen positive changes thought.
Caltrans- who build Benicia/Martinez bridge in CA with triple time and quadruple cost overrun, in last years when Bay Bridge needed repairs or rebuild - hire smaller contractors.
Private contractor build Las Vegas monorail not only for few millions less, but also few months ahead of schedule.
Somebody is putting some common sense into the corporation madness.

Many small businesses of past years were family built, or single owner who worked hard to create a great product, and became successful because of that hard work.
And, the owners sell out after years and years of good product. The "new" owner -
usually a big corporation - just adds it to it's portfolio and the chain-line production lowers the quality to zilch.

Now, it's so difficult for a NEW small business to compete, it can't. So we get very few small business start-ups today, and will get less in the future. It has become about "small price" instead of small business. Very tragic.