Lancer Camper. Inc Sold Out

streetinsider wrote:
....Lance Camper will continue to be led by its innovative founders, Jack Cole and Jeff Souleles. “We’re thrilled to be joining REV’s iconic family of brands,” said Jack Cole, President of Lance Camper, “We look forward to leveraging REV’s scale and footprint in the RV industry to rapidly expand our distribution and further accelerate our growth...

.....this says it all. There is a 300 + page manufacturing cost effective business model thesis in those words. Integration, integration, integration --campers can be built in any (other) camper manufacturing facility, with few modification to production line (read: Lance's truck campers and trailers can be built at almost any REV facility)..

......and, there is cost savings in economy of scale manufacturing (in reduction of extraneous facility requirements; eliminating duplication of engineering, and product design; reduction of employee partners (duplication); products coming off the "line" closer to buyers; integration of dealer network(s); etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc)...

On edit: .....Lance probably hit a brick wall with their pre-buyout business model....now, the sky is the limit.

rider997 wrote:
Big towable travel trailers are transported on a rail flat car- two or three to a car.

Fwiw, a lot of towable travel trailers, and fifth wheels travel by truck and even smaller hotshot trucks on I-90. Occasionally, they use a goose neck and put multiple travel trailers on them and sometimes TCs as well.

They are easily recognizable as transportation because they have DOT signs on the side of the tow vehicles as well as temporary plates if there are plates at all.

travelnutz wrote:
Kayteg1,

"My bet would be for Oregon."

I really doubt it! Lance doesn't use basically any wood in their RV's. Frames are steel, insulation is foam board, walls are Azdel composite, exterior is fiberglass product, interiors cabinets are Lite-Ply composite. None of which is made in or near Oregon or California. Lance might see some wood in shipping containers but that is incoming to Lance to be disposed of.

Oregon costs of living are approximately 122% of the national average which has a lot of bearing on the cost of labor and taxes mandated/business cost climate. While all the other locations mentioned have less than or far less than 100% of the cost of living numbers. Where we live which is a very upbeat region with ~3% unemployment constantly and also northern Indiana (the RV making center of the world and only 120 miles south of our home on Lake Michigan), the cost of living is at 84% to 88% of the national average and Texas and some other states are even lower yet. That is big and why high cost of doing business and labor issues operations are relocating so much. They are NOT stupid! Vehicles, RV's, and most major appliances among so many other things are made in middle America or the east side of the country and are shipped to the west and it has had no affect on them nor will it on RV's. They all sell competitively and have for decades.

The transportation comparisons you are making are completely off the mark. A high-roof boxcar for appliance transport is almost 10,000cf. An auto carrier holds more than a dozen cars. Big towable travel trailers are transported on a rail flat car- two or three to a car. Highway transport is even more expensive per mile than rail. If you look at transport charges to the west coast from an Indiana manufacturer (let's take Jayco for instance), you'll see $2000-$3500 transport charges. A Lance will have a $100-$500 transport charge.

Lance is paying peanuts for its Lancaster, CA industrial space. Their workforce is largely unskilled and low-paid, and California compliance expenses don't come close to the transportation costs to move their product from the midwest. Transportation costs are one of the primary reasons that Lance campers are so popular on the west coast, and barely seen east of the Mississippi. If Lance wants to move their market nation-wide, they would (IMHO) be more likely to open a second plant in Indiana than they would to shut down their current west coast manufacturing facility.

Kayteg1,

"My bet would be for Oregon."

I really doubt it! Lance doesn't use basically any wood in their RV's. Frames are steel, insulation is foam board, walls are Azdel composite, exterior is fiberglass product, interiors cabinets are Lite-Ply composite. None of which is made in or near Oregon or California. Lance might see some wood in shipping containers but that is incoming to Lance to be disposed of.

Oregon costs of living are approximately 122% of the national average which has a lot of bearing on the cost of labor and taxes mandated/business cost climate. While all the other locations mentioned have less than or far less than 100% of the cost of living numbers. Where we live which is a very upbeat region with ~3% unemployment constantly and also northern Indiana (the RV making center of the world and only 120 miles south of our home on Lake Michigan), the cost of living is at 84% to 88% of the national average and Texas and some other states are even lower yet. That is big and why high cost of doing business and labor issues operations are relocating so much. They are NOT stupid! Vehicles, RV's, and most major appliances among so many other things are made in middle America or the east side of the country and are shipped to the west and it has had no affect on them nor will it on RV's. They all sell competitively and have for decades.

Supply of materials into the factory is the beginning of the pipeline, but the short end. It is out of the factory into the customer's hands that can be very long. Years even. That's the forecasting and sell through problem car makers have, and much worse for the RV industry. It is not uncommon to see a brand new, 3 year old unit sitting on a lot, discounted by 40 percent. There isn't much profit in that. A few builders seem to be able to sustain a build-to-order business, but those are not the Lances of the RV world.

rider997 wrote:


Don't overlook the fact that, while not an insignificant cost, component transport is relatively efficient. Moving RVs involves paying to move empty boxes full of air. Lance has a huge west coast market and the cost of transporting RVs there from the Midwest would easily consume any possible savings on parts freight. Consumers look at the OTD price, which includes ground transport charges.

Transport is cheap those days. Beside the fact that lot of things transported here from China are WAY cheaper than manufactured locally, years ago I used to work for still mill located close to San Francisco.
Corporation was doing lot of things for profit, like making us to come to work at 2 AM (!) but finally they bought plant in Seattle and energy cost savings alone covered cost of hauling the steel 900 miles.

What difference does it make who owns Lance??....do some suppose the new buyer is going to sabotage the value of their new costly acquisition, the ‘Lance’ brand??....”Move along, theres nothing here to see”.......

HMS Beagle wrote:

jimh425 wrote:

HMS Beagle wrote:
I'd have thought they would have all left long ago, and California would look more like - well, Michigan or Kentucky.

Interesting how you worked Michigan and Kentucky into the discussion, but I don't think we'd probably agree on any measures that "prove" California is better. In any case, what difference does it make where Lance happens to be.

I only mentioned those two states because they were brought up by others as examples. I'm not trying to prove California is better than anywhere. I was born here and as far as I am concerned the more people that leave the better. But the idea that a business like this can substantially improve its profit merely by a change of scenery is generally a fantasy. Sure if they were currently operating in downtown SF or SJ, but Lancaster?

SidecarFlip wrote:
My view is, reduce the supply chain distance and reduce your built in costs. Why I said they will relocate to Indiana, Ohio or (long shot), Michigan because all their suppliers are here or at least the ones that incur the highest freight charges.

I would not be at all surprised if the State of Indiana isn't already wooing them to relocate to the 'RV Capital of the United States' with tax incentives and / or real estate tax abatements.

There might be a small argument for being near Elkhart, as the supply chain for some appliances might be shortened by a few days. I suspect that someone like Lance has the leverage to run a JIT supply chain with no ownership until pulled for assembly though, so it may not contribute anything. If Lance isn't doing this, it would be a more productive pursuit than a speculative move to wherever. Skilled workers are clearly not required in the RV business - just look at the products.

Tax breaks are another thing entirely and are the reason than companies with nervous feet might walk. Many local communities are beginning to wise up to this though, as are the Feds. A local jurisdiction can only give away so much before there is nothing left, and the competition to do so has ruined some already.

Don't overlook the fact that, while not an insignificant cost, component transport is relatively efficient. Moving RVs involves paying to move empty boxes full of air. Lance has a huge west coast market and the cost of transporting RVs there from the Midwest would easily consume any possible savings on parts freight. Consumers look at the OTD price, which includes ground transport charges.

Kayteg1 wrote:

jimh425 wrote:


Sounds like you have a different standard than the area where you moved to in Nevada. That doesn't make them unethical.

Sounds like you'd accept TC with gaps in the roof and no caulking when it is build in certain area?

Not the same thing, of course.

My bet would be for Oregon.
They are one of the biggest, if not the biggest manufactured houses producer and house build is slow lately.
Meaning lumberyards, factories and workers are standing by.
Country Coach was doing very well there, meaning skills are there as well.
I had 1990's era DP build by Amish and it was exceptional quality.
How much the habits change with new generation?