Long Term Nissan Titan XD Diesel Update

demiles wrote:

otrfun wrote:

demiles wrote:
In my opinion the GVWR rating is more about safety and long term reliability of the vehicle. How does overloading effect braking distance? Running overloaded all the time certainly would reduce component life and could cause premature failure. An occasional overload I really don't think is a big issue as long as caution is used. Of course the GVWR comes into play when you're talking commercial vehicles but that another story. The NHTSA requires these stickers on vehicles, it's up to the consumer to use common sense which is the problem.

Lets go with your and Jeremiah's line of thinking that payload ratings are only a guideline and not a line in the sand. For the sake of discussion let's exceed it by, say 50 percent . . . very carefully, of course. That would present a payload of 2850 lbs. for your Nissan Cummins.

Ok, let's factor in value along with that 2850 lbs. You said you paid $33k for your Nissan Cummins 4x2. A very good deal; however, the average Joe would probably pay closer to ~$36k.

A '16-'17 Ram 3500 crew cab 4x2 6.7 Cummins can be purchased for about ~$36k. That's roughly 20 percent off MSRP--standard discount pricing at any volume Ram dealer.

So, now we have two trucks that cost approx the same ($36k). Let's place 2850 lbs in the bed of each. The above trim-level Ram 3500 has a realworld payload rating of 4,000 lbs. (not just in a brochure) vs. your Nissan Cummins that supposedly has a payload rating of 1,900 lbs.

For the same $36k spent and 2850 lbs. in the bed, which truck do you think is going to be safer going down the freeway at 75 MPH? Which truck sits on full-floating axles vs. semi-floating axles? Which truck has 245 lb. ft. more torque and at the same time gets equal or better fuel economy? Which truck can still carry another 1,150 lbs. of payload and still be within payload limits? Which truck will probably last longer and be more reliable while carrying that 2,850 lbs? Lastly, which truck offers the best overall ROI for that ~$36k?

You will not buy a 1 ton Ram 6.7 in any configuration for under 45k in my area. You'll be lucky to find anything 3/4 or 1 ton from the big three under 40k. They don't discount that much because they still sell them all day long at higher prices.

Sorry to hear that. As you know, good deals, just like the $33k deal you got on your Nissan Cummins, don't just fall into your lap, ya gotta work for 'em. Same applies to any other truck deal.

MSRP on a base Ram 3500 Crew Cab Cummins 4x2 is approx. $47k. Very sad state of affairs if your local dealer won't discount more than $2k on a $47k truck. Check out prices at Dave Smith and Dennis Dillon in Idaho. They typically discount 20 percent (and more) which will get you this truck for $36k-$37k.

As for me, MSRP on my Ram 3500 4x4 Cummins Crew Cab was $53k. I paid $41k or approx. 22 percent off MSRP. I drove to CA from AZ to get that deal. Local dealer wouldn't go lower than $45.5k.

So, anyhow back to the original point at hand. Based on discounts that are available on both trucks (assuming one takes the time to find them), I'm confident my $36k price comparison is fair and reasonable.

BillyW wrote:
The GVWR on those stickers is not a very valid or reliable value. When I was shopping for my Ram 1500 Quadcab, I compared it to the Crewcabs, which weighed about 180 lbs more. Even though all the components were the same, the GAWR was the same, somehow the GVWR was 200 lbs higher.

I found something similar when we were shopping for our Van. All of the Town & Countries had the exact same payload sticker and number regardless of options at that dealership... when I had my Van serviced a few states away while on travel I found that the Town & Countries there had the same payload number...regardless of options.

Once saw an F250 equipped with P rated tires... how valid were those stickers with those tires on it? Flat dangerous is what that truck was..

Thanks!

Jeremiah

The GVWR on those stickers is not a very valid or reliable value. When I was shopping for my Ram 1500 Quadcab, I compared it to the Crewcabs, which weighed about 180 lbs more. Even though all the components were the same, the GAWR was the same, somehow the GVWR was 200 lbs higher.

otrfun wrote:

demiles wrote:
In my opinion the GVWR rating is more about safety and long term reliability of the vehicle. How does overloading effect braking distance? Running overloaded all the time certainly would reduce component life and could cause premature failure. An occasional overload I really don't think is a big issue as long as caution is used. Of course the GVWR comes into play when you're talking commercial vehicles but that another story. The NHTSA requires these stickers on vehicles, it's up to the consumer to use common sense which is the problem.

Lets go with your and Jeremiah's line of thinking that payload ratings are only a guideline and not a line in the sand. For the sake of discussion let's exceed it by, say 50 percent . . . very carefully, of course. That would present a payload of 2850 lbs. for your Nissan Cummins.

Ok, let's factor in value along with that 2850 lbs. You said you paid $33k for your Nissan Cummins 4x2. A very good deal; however, the average Joe would probably pay closer to ~$36k.

A '16-'17 Ram 3500 crew cab 4x2 6.7 Cummins can be purchased for about ~$36k. That's roughly 20 percent off MSRP--standard discount pricing at any volume Ram dealer.

So, now we have two trucks that cost approx the same ($36k). Let's place 2850 lbs in the bed of each. The above trim-level Ram 3500 has a realworld payload rating of 4,000 lbs. (not just in a brochure) vs. your Nissan Cummins that supposedly has a payload rating of 1,900 lbs.

For the same $36k spent and 2850 lbs. in the bed, which truck do you think is going to be safer going down the freeway at 75 MPH? Which truck sits on full-floating axles vs. semi-floating axles? Which truck has 245 lb. ft. more torque and at the same time gets equal or better fuel economy? Which truck can still carry another 1,150 lbs. of payload and still be within payload limits? Which truck will probably last longer and be more reliable while carrying that 2,850 lbs? Lastly, which truck offers the best overall ROI for that ~$36k?

You will not buy a 1 ton Ram 6.7 in any configuration for under 45k in my area. You'll be lucky to find anything 3/4 or 1 ton from the big three under 40k. They don't discount that much because they still sell them all day long at higher prices.

demiles wrote:
In my opinion the GVWR rating is more about safety and long term reliability of the vehicle. How does overloading effect braking distance? Running overloaded all the time certainly would reduce component life and could cause premature failure. An occasional overload I really don't think is a big issue as long as caution is used. Of course the GVWR comes into play when you're talking commercial vehicles but that another story. The NHTSA requires these stickers on vehicles, it's up to the consumer to use common sense which is the problem.

Lets go with your and Jeremiah's line of thinking that payload ratings are only a guideline and not a line in the sand. For the sake of discussion let's exceed it by, say 50 percent . . . very carefully, of course. That would present a payload of 2850 lbs. for your Nissan Cummins.

Ok, let's factor in value along with that 2850 lbs. You said you paid $33k for your Nissan Cummins 4x2. A very good deal; however, the average Joe would probably pay closer to ~$36k.

A '16-'17 Ram 3500 crew cab 4x2 6.7 Cummins can be purchased for about ~$36k. That's roughly 20 percent off MSRP--standard discount pricing at any volume Ram dealer.

So, now we have two trucks that cost approx the same ($36k). Let's place 2850 lbs in the bed of each. The above trim-level Ram 3500 has a realworld payload rating of 4,000 lbs. (not just in a brochure) vs. your Nissan Cummins that supposedly has a payload rating of 1,900 lbs.

For the same $36k spent and 2850 lbs. in the bed, which truck do you think is going to be safer going down the freeway at 75 MPH? Which truck sits on full-floating axles vs. semi-floating axles? Which truck has 245 lb. ft. more torque and at the same time gets equal or better fuel economy? Which truck can still carry another 1,150 lbs. of payload and still be within payload limits? Which truck will probably last longer and be more reliable while carrying that 2,850 lbs? Lastly, which truck offers the best overall ROI for that ~$36k?

GVWR has no bearing on the trucks total braking performance.
Minimum braking performance is a function of the vehicle GAWRs.

Not according to Ford. This is taken from my manual.

"The braking system of the tow vehicle is rated for operation at the GVWR"

Demiles, nice rig and sounds like it fits the bill perfectly for you.
For the rest of you weight cops, move along and quit counting ounces. Have you ever noticed a real difference in the same truck with a slightly different stamped payload?
Let me answer that. No you haven't.
Put any random 5 of us in a truck cab and we probably just dropped the available payload another 100lbs compared to before the holidays! You tell the ole lady to lay off the cheese log and rum balls so you don't have to re calc your payload this month??

In the RV world we think of a payload as the load that can be placed in the bed such as our truck campers or a GN/5th wheel trailer hitch load.

I keep harping on this point....the tire placard payload some folks use as a payload holy grail is a gvwr based payload and may overload some trucks rawr when its all placed in the bed.
The F150HD and the Titan XD is a good example.
Neither truck has the rear (rawr) to carry much over 2400-2500 lbs in the bed when actual math is done.
The Titan XD (4900 rawr)rear axle may weigh in the 2500-2600 lb range leaving around 2300-2400 lb payload in the bed.

Lots of newbys get taken in by those high or low gvwr based tire placard payload numbers when their figuring how much weight they can safely/legally put in the bed of their truck.

The Titan XD is competing with the F150HD with similar GVWR/GAWRs/GCWR/tow ratings. Both are what they are .........top of the line HD 1/2 ton trucks.
Once 1st/2nd year bugs are worked out the Titan XD will be at the top...JMO.

GVWR has no bearing on the trucks total braking performance.
Minimum braking performance is a function of the vehicle GAWRs.

demiles wrote:
In my opinion the GVWR rating is more about safety and long term reliability of the vehicle. How does overloading effect braking distance? Running overloaded all the time certainly would reduce component life and could cause premature failure. An occasional overload I really don't think is a big issue as long as caution is used. Of course the GVWR comes into play when you're talking commercial vehicles but that another story. The NHTSA requires these stickers on vehicles, it's up to the consumer to use common sense which is the problem.

I agree GVWR does serve a purpose. If you are buying a grocery getter it is relatively unimportant. If you are buying a tow vehicle you want to be concerned with the GVW and how it impacts the towing parameters.
Exceeding GVW occasionally will have minimal effect exceed GVW regularly will result in premature wear down the road. BTDT.

I had one of those too but built down in Winchester. Bought it new and 4 1/2 years later had to have the roof replaced. Dealer said it had been leaking from day one, caused all kinds of problems. Kept a few more years and got rid of it. The quality on mine was poor at best.