Northstar 12STC - who has one?

Hi Dave,
Thanks for your weights. Very helpful. You must have a BIG bathroom scale.:D

Shawn

Interesting because this is the information I was given for my stock height F350:

"The main difference between the Bilstein Heavy Duty vs Bilstein 5100s is that the Heavy Duty or 4600 series is designed for stock height trucks and the 5100 Series is built for lifted trucks. The other major difference between the Heavy Duty and 5100 is that the Bilstein 5100 Series shocks have a zinc coating with a brushed metal shock body and a black boot while the Heavy Duty uses a painted yellow body with a blue dust boot.

The Similarities: The 5100 series and the Heavy Duty shocks use the same technology internally. Both use the same internal valving and at stock height will ride the same (shocks for lifted trucks may use different valving settings in order to accommodate the extra weight of larger tires). Both shocks are pressurized with 360 psi of nitrogen to prevent shock fade and foaming of the shock oil. The outer construction of both shocks is identical as well with an extruded metal body rather for maximum strength and top of the line seals. The 5100 series and Heavy Duty 4600 series are both covered under Bilstein's limited lifetime warranty that protects against any manufacturer defects for the life of the shock."

The 5100's I have installed are for 0-2" lift and are supposedly otherwise identical to the 4600. 5100's for lifts greater than 0-2" may be valved differently.

As far as 4600 vs 5100 goes, they aren't the same. From http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/27023684/srt/pa/pging/1/page/1.cfm

Stars101 said

"Bilstein tech support said the 5100's are velocity valved for off road applications. They are not recommended for TC or heavy towing/hauling. These should have 4600's which are linear valved shocks."

"DH said Bilstein Tech Support (out of Moorseville NC) was terrific. Brian spoke to him for nearly 20min. about the various applications.

The way I understand it is the 5100's are great for lifted or off road trucks that will get a sharp movement, i.e. big pothole. They dampen that type of quick jarring movement. But they don't do anything for the rolling/rocking motion you get with a top heavy truck camper. That's when you should choose the 4600's.

If you are a gear head give them a call b/c the actual interior design/technology of the shocks is different between the two series. And I am not smart enough to get what that is exactly... All I know is that on a stock '06 2500 Dodge Ram CDT 5100's were dangerous with a 1,500lb. TC. DH wouldn't even let me drive it back to the dealer with the TC loaded (25 miles) for the replacement. He's doing it himself at home after work."

We happened to be at TCW at the same time Bryan and his wife were there looking, so they saw our unit on the 2014 Ram 3500 DRW.

We just got back home and I finally tallied up our numbers. We packed for a 4 1/2 week trip and before we loaded anything, I put everything on my bathroom scale ;). So, here are the numbers for our rig.

Base camper + AC + awning 3354
Heki 20
dually brackets 22
bunk ~80
footrest and addl cushion ~10
maggie rack ~30
--------------------> dry ~ 3531

bedmat ~40
Torklift + Upper Stableloads ~105
passthrough window boot ~5
------------------------> ~ 150

40 + 4 gal H2O 380
propane 40
--------------------------> 420

4 solar panels 120
400Ah LFMP batts/inverter, etc. 140
cabling/wires/connectors ~23
DIY wood cabinet for electr. ~25
-------------------------> ~308

====> wet weight + rigging ~ 4409

plus stuff for 4 people:
food (dry + fridge/freezer) 105.1
linens/clothes/shoes 133.8
3 backpacks 10.2
dishes 23.8
griddle 9.2
Coleman stove + fuel 15.4
2 12V fans 5.0
4 aluminum chairs 26.4

tools 12.0
hoses 17.6
levelers/1 chock/4 jack boards 12.0

computers, etc. + small cooler ~20
badminton + 2 balls 1.6
-----------------> "stuff" ~ 392.1

4 people ~ 480

==>Wet, loaded + 4 people ~ 5281

Sobering #s. Now add gas/diesel in the truck (~235lbs)...and we are close to our supposed payload of 56xx lbs.

Anyway, hope this helps a few folks in decision making. We will certainly adjust weights/stuff and perhaps shock/airbags upgrade as best we can for our 2 1/2 month trip to Alaska next summer.

It has been pointed out that the 4600 and 5100 shocks are valved the same.

Jim has the typical mods covered. If you want to know about handling...you just need to ride in a truck hauling a heavy TC. It will be MUCH different than pulling your toyhauler, especially with a srw and your wheel/tire setup. Only you can determine what feels acceptable and then start modding to suit your own wants....

If you are interested in non-basement models, also look at older model heavier campers like Fleetwoods and Bigfoots. Other than the height difference, I don't think you are going to get much of a handling advantage with a non-basement model.

The difference is width of floor that is possible and increased side height. Of course, the AC if equipped is higher, but those weigh about 100 lbs. I don't think that difference is significant on a 4000 lb camper. Either way, almost the entire area between wheel wells is holding tanks which will be there no matter if it is a basement model or not. Things like cabinets that weigh a lot are going to be in the same height. The bed and all of that space is essentially the same height as well.

Thanks for the reply Jim. We actually used the Bilstein 5100 shocks. Looking at Timbrens to level things up if we need them. Wet weight on the STC we looked at was 3600 pounds. I know what I can do to increase the margin of safety on weight for the truck if needed (tires, air bags, air shocks, extra spring packs, etc) - my real interest was in the handling characteristics of the STC. It sits lower and has a low CG because there is no basement and the water and gray tanks essentially sit on the truck bed floor. No black water tank because of the cassette toilet. Final weight and suspension mods will be determined by actual experience and a trip across the scales loaded but I am fishing for direct experience from other STC owners trying to anticipate what additional mods I might have to make. I have read most of the threads here and on several other forums but so far I haven't found a lot of STC owners commenting on their setups.

I don't think there is anything particular about a Northstar compared to any other heavy truck camper. It's hard for me to believe your truck only goes down 1 inch with 3600 lbs on it unless you have airbags, supersprings, or timbrens, but let's assume that's right since how much it goes down has little to do with anything.

In any case, the normal mods are shocks, some type of bump stop addition, and 19.5 wheels and tires. Northstars site says 3176 base dry weight which is about what my SRW was rated at for truck campers. I think a reasonable "low" estimate with water, propane, batteries, people, and some stuff, and some options is 4500.

You will be pushing the tire capacity pretty quickly. So, I'd say 19.5s, Bilstein 4600s if that isn't what you bought, and upper/lower Torklift Stableloads.

Take a look at this thread. User "thedavidzoo" just put the same TC model on a RAM DRW. http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/28937969/srt/pa/pging/1/page/1.cfm