Operational problems with new diesel pickups

ognend wrote:
Hmmm. An F-250 gasser and F-350 gasser (in the SRW version) will almost always be rated for more payload because the gas engine is lighter than the diesel so at least in "legal" ratings with in a particular GVWR it will have more payload. The 7.3L Godzilla gasser Ford comes with the same 10-sp tranny as the equivalent Powerstroke. As far as I am aware, the same axles etc, are in the gassers and diesels up to and including the 1 ton trucks. A lot of the time they get artificially de-rated (on paper) to fit a lesser class of truck. It would not make any sense for the manufacturer to use different axles on an equivalent F-250 or F-350 gasser/diesel trucks. In fact, the "new" 10-sp tranny used by 2020/2021 Ford gasser/diesel offerings is built by GM and there is a rumor of a 10sp 6.6L Chevy gasser for 2022....

You keep using Ford as an example.

I'll take your word on Ford. On Ram, there are three different transmissions, three different transfer cases, and two different rear axles in use for 2019+MY.

It looks like you edited more of your post too, but I'm not going to take the time to go back and edit all my replies.

In summary, it sounds like you had a poor experience with a Powerstroke 6.7 that you bought, and swore off all diesel engines after that.

ognend wrote:
Spend some time on the Powerstroke 6.7L facebook group or on any powerstroke online forums.

I'm not gullible enough to buy a Powerstroke.

ognend wrote:
Sure, if you have money coming out of your ears, it is never about cost ;

I'm you even you buy more than you need at times. As I see it, choosing a diesel pickup over a gasoline pickup is comparable to buying a luxury sedan over an economy one.

ognend wrote:
So you did have a CP4 failure? ;) What was the bill? $10K? $12K

Around $10K, but who buys a BMW or any german car without expecting repairs? You can swap both Duramax and Cummins to CP3 if the CP4 keeps you up at night. An argument against a particular fuel pump is not a valid argument against a fuel.

ognend wrote:
Lucky you warranty covered it. Ford is not covering them, that's why there is a class action lawsuit.

One of the multiple reasons I would not buy another Ford. An argument against a particular brand is not a valid argument against a fuel.

ognend wrote:
Why? If diesels are so reliable.....

An argument against a particular fuel pump is not a valid argument against a fuel.

ognend wrote:
I was talking about money - what modern diesels cost to maintain/operate and the issues they are seeing.

And I'm noting that you're exaggerating the issues and blind to how people prioritize spending.

ognend wrote:
People buy what they are programmed to buy or what others tell them to buy. "Hey guys, I bought a 10K lbs travel trailer, what truck do I get???". "Buy a diesel! They last forever and they have awesome power!".

Buy the right tool for the job. I'm not telling anyone what to buy. I'm saying that the issues with diesel engines are not as common as you portray, and that you fail to acknowledge that some things are bought because they're wanted, not needed.

ognend wrote:
I agree, easier to tow with an exhaust brake but gassers have natural engine retardation so that counts for something at least.

They do, but it's not anywhere close. And every one I've towed with has had to scream to utilize it with anything marginally steep or heavy.

ognend wrote:
Hmmm. An F-250 gasser and F-350 gasser (in the SRW version) will almost always be rated for more payload because the gas engine is lighter than the diesel so at least in "legal" ratings with in a particular GVWR it will have more payload.

There is a whole lot more to this than payload/GVWR even if you aren't discussing being overweight. Longevity will vary between parts, with the heavier parts usually lasting longer under similar loading. And for those of us who spend a lot of time off-road, the transfer cases and axles are often of great value. I don't want to snap a shaft with a heavy camper while crawling off a small shelf.

jshupe wrote:

To say they are laden with issues is a blatant exaggeration.

Spend some time on the Powerstroke 6.7L facebook group or on any powerstroke online forums. What is the first recommendation you get on these forums? Install a CP4 disaster kit or a fass lift pump. 2nd recommendation? Delete the emissions system. 3rd recommendation? Oil changes every 5K and fuel filter changes every 10K miles and DO NOT FORGET TO USE A LUBRICATING ADDITIVE (!). If these new diesels were so great and reliable, why spend $3-4K on these changes (and void warranty and go illegal)? Why accelerate the manufacturer recommended maintenance schedule? Ford says you don't need to use an additive but will not cover the CP4 pump failures...

My '16 Powerstroke had TSB 16-0041 at 4,000 miles (emissions system). At 15,000 miles a new water pump. At 30,000 miles a left lean bank sensor. At 40,000 miles a slow coolant leak that nobody has been able to find and I am now at 52,000 miles. Is it leaking out of the radiator cap? Out of the radiator inlet? At the off-gas bottle cap? At any of the hose fittings? Maybe it is leaking into the intercooler? Who knows? The engine is so crammed you can't see anything and it passing all the pressure tests....

jshupe wrote:

And not everything is about cost... you don't buy a Corvette over a Spark for economy, yet they sell plenty of them and don't kick up the same amount of dust the diesel vs gas debate does.

Sure, if you have money coming out of your ears, it is never about cost ;). Besides, you are talking about extremes (Corvette vs Spark but there are MANY alternatives in between at all different cost points). I am talking about two classes of vehicles - one that fits most people's needs (esp. with the new 7.3L Ford gas and 6.6L Chevy gas offerings) and another - that has become a super expensive monstrosity that is not even that reliable anymore.

jshupe wrote:

I had a CP4 failure covered under warranty on my 335D

So you did have a CP4 failure? ;) What was the bill? $10K? $12K?

Lucky you warranty covered it. Ford is not covering them, that's why there is a class action lawsuit.

jshupe wrote:

after that converted my GM LML to a CP3, and will do the same for my Ram when the warranty is up.

Why? If diesels are so reliable.....

jshupe wrote:
I have absolutely no concerns about my diesel

I was talking about money - what modern diesels cost to maintain/operate and the issues they are seeing.

jshupe wrote:

Vehicles, with few possible exceptions, are pay to play, and people buy what they want. Very few buy just what they need, or else there would be a lot more people hauling with basic work trucks and commuting in econoboxes.

People buy what they are programmed to buy or what others tell them to buy. "Hey guys, I bought a 10K lbs travel trailer, what truck do I get???". "Buy a diesel! They last forever and they have awesome power!". I am here to tell you that this "diesels are indestructible" myth is based on old and simple diesel machines of the pre-2004 era - those were cheap AND simple to operate! New ones? Nope.

Like my 1970 Massey Ferguson tractor with the legendary Perkins diesel engine - compare that to today's emissions laden Masseys that mandate that a farmer has at least two tractors - a new one and a 50 year old one for when the new one fails....

IMHO most people have no idea about towing capacities and payloads. They just buy whatever they think is adequate or whatever they have heard from someone is adequate (salesman, online RV forum, whatever). If people bought based on educated decisions (cost of ownership, payloads, towing capacities etc. etc.) - most would NOT own a today's diesel.

jshupe wrote:

Two final points:

• The value of exhaust braking in modern diesels should not be overlooked if you are traveling in the mountains
  
  I agree, easier to tow with an exhaust brake but gassers have natural engine retardation so that counts for something at least.
  
  

  jshupe wrote:
  
  

  Diesel variants usually come with stronger transmissions, transfer cases, axles, etc, and that is part of the premium

  
  
  Hmmm. An F-250 gasser and F-350 gasser (in the SRW version) will almost always be rated for more payload because the gas engine is lighter than the diesel so at least in "legal" ratings with in a particular GVWR it will have more payload. The 7.3L Godzilla gasser Ford comes with the same 10-sp tranny as the equivalent Powerstroke. As far as I am aware, the same axles etc, are in the gassers and diesels up to and including the 1 ton trucks. A lot of the time they get artificially de-rated (on paper) to fit a lesser class of truck. It would not make any sense for the manufacturer to use different axles on an equivalent F-250 or F-350 gasser/diesel trucks. In fact, the "new" 10-sp tranny used by 2020/2021 Ford gasser/diesel offerings is built by GM and there is a rumor of a 10sp 6.6L Chevy gasser for 2022....

Grit dog wrote:
^Seems like most of your issues are not diesel related and all are worse because of the dealer.
I don’t think Ram/Dodge cares any less than any of the other mfgs. These same types of isolated stories come from the other mfgs too.
It really s ucks and I’d be bitter too. And I sure as heck wouldn’t be brand loyal following getting the runaround.
Hope you have good recourse and/or get your issues fixed man!

OMG, it's become comical.
They've ordered the recall parts 28 days ago, which was 3 weeks after I setup the 2nd appointment to have the parts installed. The first appointment was many weeks before that. And, they still don't have the parts. In short, I made an appointment 3 weeks in advance, dropped the truck off for 4 days, and they parked it. But, on the first day it was there, they finally ordered the recall part. And, then it sat for three more days. They also determined that the radio was bad and ordered a new one. The funny part is that a different dealer determined the same thing over 1 1/2 years ago, after 3 appointments, when the truck was only a few months old and only had 2000 miles on it. But back then, there was no fix other than "the radio doesn't work correctly - sorry."

It turns out that they received the new radio. But, they didn't bother to call and let me know. I found out because the case manager finally called the dealership, 3 weeks later, to check how the appointment went 3 weeks ago. He found out that none of the work was done. But, parts were ordered. And they received the radio earlier this week but never bothered to call me. So, the case manager called me to ask me to call the dealership to setup another appointment. LOL. They still don't have the bed step recall part though.

You can't make this stuff up! It's hilarious. Ram should be called Bye-Don Auto. The most stupid, incompetent group of senile fools.

BTW, the CP4 pump still works. It's just the rest of the truck that has operation problems. LOL.

ognend wrote:
The new diesel engines are laden with issues. IMHO, unless you really need it (working truck hauling heavy equipment daily) or you tow heavy (>15-16K lbs) and you do it often - a new 6.6L chevy or 7.3L Ford gasser will happily do the job with 1/4 of the drama. No "you used bad fuel, what did you expect" guilt trips, no EGR/emissions issues, no CP4 $12K repair failures, no turbo failures, no mystery coolant leaks. The new diesels are beasts for sure but do the math between a 8mpg new gasser towing and the 14mpg new diesel towing with current prices and $10K engine premium on diesel (plus oil/fuel filter/additive costs over the time of ownership) - the $10K premium turns into a $12-14K premium with the cost of diesel maintenance - takes years to make up the mileage difference - and I am not even talking expensive repairs on the diesel OR you have to keep buying extended warranties. The only thing that diesels have going is that people still think of them as reliable and they keep their resale value better.

To say they are laden with issues is a blatant exaggeration. And not everything is about cost... you don't buy a Corvette over a Spark for economy, yet they sell plenty of them and don't kick up the same amount of dust the diesel vs gas debate does.

I had a CP4 failure covered under warranty on my 335D, after that converted my GM LML to a CP3, and will do the same for my Ram when the warranty is up. Other than that, I have absolutely no concerns about my diesel, but a savings account should an issue ever come up. I prefer diesel to gasoline, as so many other people do, and will continue to use diesel until viable hydrogen or electric alternatives come along. I've owned multiple modern diesels and never had any other major problems out of them. To be clear, I also own a Jeep with a 2.0T that's turning heavy 37s with 5.13 gears and would keep money in savings for it all the same, and I'm not only sold on diesels.

I've had plenty of problems out of gasoline engines I've bought, because they didn't stand up well to the abuse I dished out. I can't go blaming those issues on the fact that they were gasoline, or say that my Duramax was better because it didn't bat an eye being ramped up to over 600RWHP with a heavy right foot or (using a different tune) 440RWHP with a 15K trailer. Reliability is highly dependent on use, maintenance, etc, and a whole lot more nuanced than "gasoline is more reliable". I doubt you'll have any more issues out of a modern diesel than you will a modern gasoline engine, as the days of marked simplicity are long gone. And if you're asking a gas engine to work near its limits, the same load would likely be comfortably moving along behind a diesel, and I bet that diesel would last a whole lot longer.

Vehicles, with few possible exceptions, are pay to play, and people buy what they want. Very few buy just what they need, or else there would be a lot more people hauling with basic work trucks and commuting in econoboxes.

Two final points:

• The value of exhaust braking in modern diesels should not be overlooked if you are traveling in the mountains
  
• Diesel variants usually come with stronger transmissions, transfer cases, axles, etc, and that is part of the premium

Motorbiscuit.com shared that in a recent survey cars.com survey both GM brand heavy duty trucks had the lowest reviews on new customer satisfaction.

Motorbiscuit

Before anyone gets too excited please remember that lowest is relative and the competition is tough, leading to this statement:

"The 2021 GMC Sierra 3500HD actually earns a total of 4.5 stars overall. Consumers give this truck 5 stars in the performance category. In fact, it gets 4.5 in all the other categories except one. For reliability, the 2021 GMC Sierra earned only 2 out of 5 stars."

Chevrolet didn't fair quite as well:
"The Chevrolet Silverado 3500HD is the one truck that actually has a pretty low overall score of 3.7 stars. Owner reviews tell tales of issues soon after purchasing the truck. Even with very low mileage, the 2021 Chevrolet Silverado 3500HD is in and out of the shop with a frequency that’s angering buyers."

I just got my truck back from the dealer today. Took in it yesterday because one of the three heaters in the DEF tank was bad and it was showing code P20B9. Dealer put in a new heater and said it was covered by warranty so no charge. I have 105,000 miles and found out the warranty is good until 120,000.

The new diesel engines are laden with issues. IMHO, unless you really need it (working truck hauling heavy equipment daily) or you tow heavy (>15-16K lbs) and you do it often - a new 6.6L chevy or 7.3L Ford gasser will happily do the job with 1/4 of the drama. No "you used bad fuel, what did you expect" guilt trips, no EGR/emissions issues, no CP4 $12K repair failures, no turbo failures, no mystery coolant leaks. The new diesels are beasts for sure but do the math between a 8mpg new gasser towing and the 14mpg new diesel towing with current prices and $10K engine premium on diesel (plus oil/fuel filter/additive costs over the time of ownership) - the $10K premium turns into a $12-14K premium with the cost of diesel maintenance - takes years to make up the mileage difference - and I am not even talking expensive repairs on the diesel OR you have to keep buying extended warranties. The only thing that diesels have going is that people still think of them as reliable and they keep their resale value better.

Another day, another CEL. Fresh off a trip to the shop and a DEF heater, the truck I drove today has the CEL back on. It stayed off for a whole 100 miles! I think the repairs on the trucks at work in 2021 might hit $50K soon.

^Seems like most of your issues are not diesel related and all are worse because of the dealer.
I don’t think Ram/Dodge cares any less than any of the other mfgs. These same types of isolated stories come from the other mfgs too.
It really s ucks and I’d be bitter too. And I sure as heck wouldn’t be brand loyal following getting the runaround.
Hope you have good recourse and/or get your issues fixed man!