ognend wrote:
The title of this thread is "OPERATIONAL PROBLEMS WITH NEW DIESEL PICKUPS".
I literally listed all the operational problems with 2011-onwards diesel pickups ("new"). I explained the cost of ownership of a "new" diesel pickup vs gasser and how many miles/years it would take to make up the $10K premium of a diesel engine vs a gasser engine. I explained that the new 2020+ gas engines are potent tow-ers with plenty of HP and torque, that can easily satisfy the towing needs of the general - occasional - towing public that tows weights below, let's say 16-18,000 lbs. I also explained that the new gas engines are also much cheaper to operate and maintain and do not suffer from all the drama associated with the new diesels.
IMHO the diesel truck manufacturers have been focusing on the wrong objectives - competing on extra lbs of towing capacity and higher torque. Instead, they should be competing on reliability and quality. But those things are not easy to measure. You can't say "New Duramax is 17.3% more reliable". What is much easier to say is "New Duramax has leading torque in its class, exceeding the competition by 17 ft/lbs of torque and 12 HP". In essence, they are competing on "whose is bigger" and the unwashed masses that are conditioned to lap this up - are lapping it up.
As for your claim that I am overstating the CP4 problems - there are literally millions and millions of trucks out there with a ticking time bomb (the CP4 pump) - all powerstrokes from 2011-2021, Duramaxes from 2011-2016 and Cummins from 2014 and onwards. That's a lot of potentially expensive repairs for a hell of a lot of people. Ford is embroiled in a class action lawsuit, so is GM. RAM is probably next.
You telling me that my beef is with a pump, not a fuel system is silly. Diesels can be great but they are NOT great in millions and millions of vehicles sold in the last 10+ years.
What about emissions systems? Plenty of expensive repairs in that arena as well. Why do you think half of these trucks are deleted, despite the fact that it is illegal to do so?
My experience owning diesels has been relatively problem free. So have the ownership experiences of most people I know -- I know of several owners, but not of any other HPFP failures.
You keep talking about a fuel pump, but it's both easy to mitigate and easy to avoid. It accounts for a very small amount of actual, real-world issues, it just happens to be a rather loud one that gets lots of attention due to the repair bills. For what it's worth, the 2014-2018 Cummins still used the CP3, they only used CP4 for 2019-2020. I've put 70K+ on CP4s and while I did lose one, it was the exception and not the rule (on a '10, nonetheless). Many people have gone hundreds of thousands of miles on them. They don't all have issues and while dealerships may repair a few a year, the overwhleing majority of trucks with CP4 pumps do not end up in the shop for them. Again, other than on Ford, they're easy to swap out and avoid if they keep you up at night.
You've bought into the "squeaky wheel" arguments and now think every CP4 is a ticking time bomb and that all the emissions systems are going to fail. The people with issues complain loudly - the people without generally don't have as much to say. And very importantly, information and reputations take years to turn around, so you're missing the point that substantial improvements have been made in the last decade. As you were so quick to remind me, we're discussing the "OPERATIONAL PROBLEMS WITH
NEW DIESEL PICKUPS".
ognend wrote:
I could equally say that you are understating the problems.
I could say that your whole premise has been "I am rich and buy what I want and I want a diesel and if you can't afford it, buy a gasser"? Although you also said "buy the right tool for the job". So, one of us must be confused ;)
For most of the fools out there towing, say, 8-15,000 lbs once or twice a month to the local campgrounds within a 500 mile radius and whose trucks otherwise do not work for a living hauling equipment around construction sites etc. - please explain to me why the diesel is the right tool for the job (righter) than the new 2020+ gasser like the 7.3L Ford or the 6.6L Chevy. Esp. at the $10K premium right off the bat and the much higher maintenance/operational cost down the road.
Not rich - I have to prioritize my spending and budget just like most other people. This forum is largely dedicated to a leisure activity, so most people here have already made the decision to spend lots of money on things that aren't necessary. You're getting all caught up on a $10K difference in vehicles that cost $60K+ already. The higher the trim, the more marginal the cost is relative to the purchase price. Vehicles are pay to play - I don't think diesel mainteinance costs are that high or out of hand.
I do think they make the experience much better, starting at 7K, and much safer starting at 14K or 10K if you spend a lot of time in the mountains. Those are all loose numbers, but I firmly disagree with your 16-18000lb figures. Most 40' fifth wheels - extremely common now - are much better behind a diesel. My parameters for when a diesel makes sense do not align with yours, which appears to be confusing for you.
As you pointed out, the title of this thread is "OPERATIONAL PROBLEMS WITH
NEW DIESEL PICKUPS". The post asks about operational problems - which are greatly exaggerated and you are continuing to push tropes that are more valid about trucks made ten years ago than they are today. The incremental changes they've made each year have greatly improved the situation. It did not ask about money in the original post.
It asked about diesels, for "Towing a 14,000 lb. fiver into the Rockies". As far as I'm concerned, that's fully diesel territory, especially if that's a dry weight.
ognend wrote:
These are bogus claims, of course. Diesel engine have higher torques so they have strenghtened parts - well, you are explaining why - to deal with higher torques and the heavier weight of the engine. I have never heard of a higher axle or frame or transfer case or anything else failure rate in gassers than in diesel, don't be silly :)
So first, you ask me to point out what trucks come with stronger components with diesel than gas, then essentially retort "of course they do". For lots of people, especially people towing or hauling heavy to boondocking sites, the increased TC and axle strentgh could be important. The difference in shaft diameter or wall thickness could be the difference between a trail rescue or driving out. The axle on my 6.7HO is monstrous compared to the gas rear end and as a side effect, I am a lot more confident about its strength when asked to crawl over things with a 5K+ camper on it. I ask a lot from my vehicles and am always breaking things - but I'm breaking far less on my diesels.
