Ram 2500 Diesel

ShinerBock wrote:

wanderingaimlessly wrote:


With the concept of the truck being a 10k lbs gvwr the engineers designed the springs for that weight. the springs are the same for either the CTD or a 5.7 gas, only the payload cap changes, because that is the stated goal of building a 10k lbs gvwr truck.

I gave my opinion, and stated why I dont think it's a good idea for the op's stated idea, if you want to suggest otherwise, feel free.

Yes, the brakes on the 2500 and SRW 3500 are exactly the same. The frames have the same ratings. The front suspension and front axle are the same, The rear axles are the same. The only difference is the rear suspension which is why a 3500's rear axle GAWR is 500 lbs more at 7,000 lbs while my 2500 is 6,500 lbs. Ram's (and most manufacturers) GAWR's are ratings of the whole axle system which includes brakes, tires, axles and suspension.

So if Ram designed my 2500 suspension around a 10k GVWR rating, then why did they give it a front GAWR of 6,000 lbs and the rear 6,500 lbs which is 12,500 lbs total. The 3500 of the same year has a front GAWR of 6,000 lbs and the rear of 7,000 lbs with is 13,000 lbs total.

In most cases, the answer to your question is that they saved money by using the same components as on another vehicle. Be it brakes, frame or whatever.
I could use your logic to likewise ask "why list the front axle higher than 5000 and the rear axle over 5000 since the total rig is rated for 10,000."

I can think of several scenarios where the weights could be a problem. As an example,,,
You are in a fairly new truck, under warranty, and experience a major breakdown. Get towed by a Ram dealer to their facility and they note that you were towing something which caused you to exceed their weight limits, (this would be my luck) and they void your warranty.

I have hauled gravel several times in my 2500 and had it at least 1000 pounds over the mfr's limit, but,,,
I was past my warranty,
I knew it was only a short distance on flat roads
and I knew the liklihood of a weight check was near nil.
All of that being said, I would not tell someone else to do it. I may tell them I have, but I decided to take the risk.

wanderingaimlessly wrote:


With the concept of the truck being a 10k lbs gvwr the engineers designed the springs for that weight. the springs are the same for either the CTD or a 5.7 gas, only the payload cap changes, because that is the stated goal of building a 10k lbs gvwr truck. And engineers tend to build to suit the design need, not the backyard mechs dreams.

If you really want to go into the weeds you would need to examine the rest of the vehicle. Is the braking system the same? Or are the 3500 series brakes heavier? I honestly don't know, and don't care, because I have always assumed that the engineers designing something and a manufacturing a piece of equipment that are willing to put a warranty on it, have a better idea of what it can do than the average guy with a toolbox and a JCWhitney catalog.

I gave my opinion, and stated why I dont think it's a good idea for the op's stated idea, if you want to suggest otherwise, feel free.

Yes, the brakes on the diesel 2500 and diesel SRW 3500 are exactly the same. The frames have the same ratings. The front suspension and front axle are the same, The rear axles are the same. The only difference is the rear suspension which is why a 3500's rear axle GAWR is 500 lbs more at 7,000 lbs while my 2500 is 6,500 lbs. Ram's (and most manufacturers) GAWRs are ratings of the whole axle system which includes brakes, tires, axles and suspension.

So if Ram designed my 2500 suspension around a 10k GVWR rating, then why did they give it a front GAWR of 6,000 lbs and the rear 6,500 lbs which is 12,500 lbs total. The 3500 of the same year has a front GAWR of 6,000 lbs and the rear of 7,000 lbs which is 13,000 lbs total.

Grit dog wrote:


You're missing the point because you can't see through your mfgs gvw rating glasses...
Put aside some people's perceived "liability" of the matter for a moment and think about it.
YOUR truck has a 3klb payload. How much heavier is your truck's unladen rear axle weight than a comparable diesel 4wd? I'll answer for you.
About 1/2 the weight of the transfer case, so about 100lbs heavier.
Yet, with the same rear suspension and chassis, the diesels are considerably less, but pretty much all the diesel's (and front axle) weight is on the front axle. Therefore, the rear end of the truck with the SAME everything else is just as safe and capable.

With the concept of the truck being a 10k lbs gvwr the engineers designed the springs for that weight. the springs are the same for either the CTD or a 5.7 gas, only the payload cap changes, because that is the stated goal of building a 10k lbs gvwr truck. And engineers tend to build to suit the design need, not the backyard mechs dreams.

If you really want to go into the weeds you would need to examine the rest of the vehicle. Is the braking system the same? Or are the 3500 series brakes heavier? I honestly don't know, and don't care, because I have always assumed that the engineers designing something and a manufacturing a piece of equipment that are willing to put a warranty on it, have a better idea of what it can do than the average guy with a toolbox and a JCWhitney catalog.

I gave my opinion, and stated why I dont think it's a good idea for the op's stated idea, if you want to suggest otherwise, feel free.

wanderingaimlessly wrote:
You still have not understood my point. The 2500 is designed for the 10k limit. the frame, engine one tranny etc are the same as the heavier 3500 series. BUT by design the coil springs are spece'ed to be ideal for the 10K weight. and unless you want to modify, ignore, or overload, they are what causes the limit to be at that point on the truck as built.
Yes I have a 2500 but 2wd, mine is near 3000 lbs because of the gas engine I have towed tt's and had a TC for a while. But I dont tend to jump in and out of my trucks frequently so I Have not had a need as of yet for a diesel.

You're missing the point because you can't see through your mfgs gvw rating glasses...
Put aside some people's perceived "liability" of the matter for a moment and think about it.
YOUR truck has a 3klb payload. How much heavier is your truck's unladen rear axle weight than a comparable diesel 4wd? I'll answer for you.
About 1/2 the weight of the transfer case, so about 100lbs heavier.
Yet, with the same rear suspension and chassis, the diesels are considerably less, but pretty much all the diesel's (and front axle) weight is on the front axle. Therefore, the rear end of the truck with the SAME everything else is just as safe and capable.

You still have not understood my point. The 2500 is designed for the 10k limit. the frame, engine one tranny etc are the same as the heavier 3500 series. BUT by design the coil springs are spece'ed to be ideal for the 10K weight. and unless you want to modify, ignore, or overload, they are what causes the limit to be at that point on the truck as built.
Yes I have a 2500 but 2wd, mine is near 3000 lbs because of the gas engine I have towed tt's and had a TC for a while. But I dont tend to jump in and out of my trucks frequently so I Have not had a need as of yet for a diesel.

stapler101 wrote:
the trailer I am looking at is a Wildcat 384mb with a hitch weight of 2080 and dry weight of 12443,
I did not know about the door sticker until your post.
My door stickers shows 2380.

Here is my read on this, as one who towed a 12,500# fiver with a 2001 Ram CTD at 1,700# over the 8,800# GVWR.

Will the truck pull it, absolutely no issue there same engine as base 3500. Will you be over GVWR and rear GAWR yes to GVWR, and maybe close to GAWR.
When I finally moved to a 3500 DRW I was 10,500# on the TV, with just shy of 6,000# on the rear axle.

One thing to think about about your choice of 5er, is at 42' it only has a payload of 1,958#, that is less than I have on our 32' 5er!

I see you in trouble keeping both TV and 5er under GVWR.

So lets look at some numbers,
2018 Wildcat 384mb specs
Length 42'
Width 96"
Height 12' 7"
Dry Weight 12,101#
Payload 1,958# (17%)
Hitch Weight 2,059#
GVWR 14,059#
Wet Hitch;
At 17% of GVWR 2,390#
At 20% of GVWR 2,812#
At 22% of GVWR 2,652#
At 25% of GVWR 3,015#

So at GVWR and 17% pin same as dry you are already 10# over 10,000#.
Now that is nothing, but add hitch, passengers, stuff, likely not 17% but closer to 22% for smooth ride you are looking at 11,000# on the TV. Check you tire size, 17" not good only 3,195# each, 18" or 20" you have enough tire.
The reason I chose to step up to a 3500 DRW was not getting cited by a LEO, but being taken to Civil Court by a very hungry injury lawyer.

It is your choice to tow over GVWR, just realize there can be consequences other than a ticket.

wanderingaimlessly wrote:

ib516 wrote:

wanderingaimlessly wrote:
Yeah , it's sad, but the coil suspension makes that light riding truck, have very little payload after you allow for the diesels weight.

Sorry my friend, but that is 100% BS.

The 2380# payload is typical for the 2500 crew cab diesel class and has zero to do with the rear springs, and everything to do with the 10k weight limit for class 2 trucks (that is until GM changed the rules sort of, but that's another topic).

All that means is your truck weighs 10,000 - 2380 = 7620# empty as it sits.

The coil spring rear suspension gives a better ride, empty or loaded, but does not reduce the available payload. Trains engines ride on coil springs, and I think they're pretty heavy.

And I simply said it was a light payload cap. And advised how to check it.
The Manufacturers guidelines show the light payload. I did point out that tow capacity was more than sufficient especially since it is the same engine as the 3500 series.
If you want to overload yours, go ahead, but acknowledge that you do this by your own decision and thought process, and at some point some agency or lawyer will prosecute/sue someone for violating the guidelines and going over the 10,000 limit you point out.
What the rear axle in and of itself can carry wont be the determining factor.
And whether or not a train engine has leaf or coil springs has nothing to do with springs spec'ed out to give that soft ride at a 10,000 weight limit in this pickup.

No, you stated the coils were to blame for the light payload which is completely untrue. Have you owned a Ram 2500 with rear coil suspensions and towed a 5th wheel with it? I have.

Maybe you didn't mean for it to be read the way you wrote it, but, other than the oddly placed comma, your statement directly attributed the light payload to the rear coil springs.
"it's sad, but the coil suspension makes that light riding truck have very little payload after you allow for the diesels weight"

And the truck does ride very well. You may not have been on these forums then, but I did a test with a friend who had a:

2014 Ram 3500 SRW short bed, 4x4, crew cab, 6.7L diesel
and compared it to my then
2014 Ram 2500 short bed, 4x4, crew cab, 6.4L Hemi

And we towed his 14,000# 41' 5er back to back with each truck and MEASURED the squat difference in the rear suspension, along with 0-60 and a few other things. I posted pictures on this forum and a written report. My 2500 squatted exactly 1 inch more than the leaf sprung 3500 that had a 500# higher rear GAWR (7000# vs 6500#) and a 1500# higher GVWR (11,500# vs 10,000#).

I also did a comparison to the 2007 Ram 3500 SRW Megacab (with factory rear overload leaf springs and Torqlift Stable Loads) to my 2014 RAM 2500 with the same 5er, back to back. I measured squat there too and the 2500 squatted less than the 3500 - even with the rear suspension add ons the 3500 had. So yes, I feel I'm pretty qualified to talk about the characteristics of a coil sprung Ram 2500 truck.

The point about the trains was to illustrate that coil springs do not equal weak as most uneducated assume because before the 2014 RAM 2500, they were typically found on lighter duty applications in the automotive world.

stapler101 wrote:
I have a 2018 Ram 2500, diesel, short bed, "standard" rear end.
I am considering a 42 ft 5th wheel trailer with an empty weight of 12K.
Will my truck handle it on cross country trips with hills and mountains?

I can't really say without more detail on the trailer, but with bags or Timbrens your truck will handle that trailer as well as any same year SRW 3500. Just register it properly. As others have said the only difference in fourth gen Rams is the rear suspension (and the availability of the Aisin/HO CTD, which has nothing to do with load carrying capacity). I run timbrens on my Ram and I think they work great, particularly as they sit outside the coils so they effectively widen out the suspension.

That said, a DRW truck might be a better fit for cross country trips with a 42' trailer. If you are thinking of upgrading it would be a total waste to buy a SRW 3500 when $200 timbrens would accomplish the same thing.

ib516 wrote:

wanderingaimlessly wrote:
Yeah , it's sad, but the coil suspension makes that light riding truck, have very little payload after you allow for the diesels weight.

Sorry my friend, but that is 100% BS.

The 2380# payload is typical for the 2500 crew cab diesel class and has zero to do with the rear springs, and everything to do with the 10k weight limit for class 2 trucks (that is until GM changed the rules sort of, but that's another topic).

All that means is your truck weighs 10,000 - 2380 = 7620# empty as it sits.

The coil spring rear suspension gives a better ride, empty or loaded, but does not reduce the available payload. Trains engines ride on coil springs, and I think they're pretty heavy.

And I simply said it was a light payload cap. And advised how to check it.
The Manufacturers guidelines show the light payload. I did point out that tow capacity was more than sufficient especially since it is the same engine as the 3500 series.
If you want to overload yours, go ahead, but acknowledge that you do this by your own decision and thought process, and at some point some agency or lawyer will prosecute/sue someone for violating the guidelines and going over the 10,000 limit you point out.
What the rear axle in and of itself can carry wont be the determining factor.
And whether or not a train engine has leaf or coil springs has nothing to do with springs spec'ed out to give that soft ride at a 10,000 weight limit in this pickup.

PNW_Steve wrote:

patperry2766 wrote:
Ram 2500 vs Ram 3500

Per this article, the only difference between a 3/4T and a 1T is the coil springs vs leaf springs. Everything else is the same. I have the same truck as you. While I haven't got a new trailer yet, I feel like I'd be comfortable being 500-750 lbs over for as seldom as I get to go. If I need airbags or whatever, then so be it.

I am not anything close to an automotive engineer or even a mechanic....

But I have owned and towed with both Ram 2500 & 3500's and I find this a little hard to believe. The 3500's have been significantly more comfortable to tow or haul with.

Just my $0.02 :)

I believe that article is referring to newer 2014+ 2500/3500 trucks. In that case, it is true that there is not much difference between them.

There is also the factor of each brand as well. My brother had a 2012 F350 PSD and traded it in for a 2014 Ram 2500 CTD. He has stated many times that he feels more comfortable towing with the 2500 over his old F350. The 2500 has less sways and less bounce towing the exact same trailer making it feel more stable.