Ram Eco-Diesel vs F150 2.7 TT - Davis Dam

That's because the Jeep has 8 gears. Our 2008 CRD Grand Cherokee was at 2,000 RPM in 5th gear so it never had to shift down into 4th unless we were towing. The 2014 ecodiesel's 8th gear doesn't hit 2,000 RPM until 77 MPH.

womps wrote:
I am not surprised how that 2.7 Ecoboost can out pull the 3.0 Ecodiesel. I have the Ecodiesel in a 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee and it will shift out of 8th on the slightest incline without pulling a trailer. The 3.5 Ecoboost in my 2012 F150 needs a very steep hill before it will shift out of 6th. Fuel economy, well we won't talk about that. Interestingly enough owners of the Ram with the Ecodisel are reporting fuel economy as good as the Grand Cherokee with the same engine.

transamz9 wrote:

RCMAN46 wrote:

JPhelps wrote:

Hey T&P. Remember that one person telling us that HP is just a calculation and doesn't really exist like TQ does? Lol

LOL, that guy was right. Look up the definition.
You will notice that 'torque' is the measure of 'work'. Work requires a force. That force is torque. All horsepower adds to the equation is time, so horsepower is just the ticking of the clock.

This guy quoted below works with horsepower all the time for his livelihood and this is what he has to say about it.

What This Means
As we proved above, horsepower is simply an extrapolation of torque applied over time. When an engine is measured for its power potential on a dynamometer, horsepower and torque are not measured as separate entities. Rather, torque is measured, and horsepower is then calculated given the torque at the specific RPM level.
Car owners often use “horsepower” as the end-all be-all rating for engine performance. This perspective is flawed. First of all, when you hear of a car having X horsepower, it only refers to the peak horsepower on the dyno graph. Secondly, it doesn’t indicate what the shape of the torque curve is. You can feel the torque that an engine generates as you’re pushed back into your seat.

http://www.roushperformance.com/blog/2010/12/the-meaning-of-horsepower-and-torque/

Bye,,,,, again.

But if you are talking about a chassis dynamometer (that is what you will find in the field)
They measure horsepower and the torque has to be calculated.

Also torque is not a measurement of work. Torque is only a force measurement. You can have a 1000 ft lbs of torque with no work being done.

But if you have 300 hp work is being done.

When you are being pushed back in you seat that is horsepower.

Being pushed back in your seat is torque overpowering the resistance. Horsepower is just a mathematical calculation that tells you how much torque you are putting out to overcome that resistance.

You are leaving out one important element. The rate it can overcome that resistance.

RCMAN46 wrote:
When a car puts you back in your seat that is because the car is accelerating. The faster the car accelerates the more it will push you back.

Force applied in a unit of time describes horsepower and not torque.

Choosing an engine that has more torque may not accelerate the car faster.

But choosing an engine that has more horsepower will definitely increase the force it will set you back in the seat.

Well said and on the money.

On a bike I can put out about 200 ft/lbs of torque and about 1/2 HP. A 5 HP with 9 ft/lbs of torque go-cart would wax me in a drag race.

When a car puts you back in your seat that is because the car is accelerating. The faster the car accelerates the more it will push you back.

Force applied in a unit of time describes horsepower and not torque.

Choosing an engine that has more torque may not accelerate the car faster.

But choosing an engine that has more horsepower will definitely increase the force it will set you back in the seat.

JPhelps wrote:

Hey T&P. Remember that one person telling us that HP is just a calculation and doesn't really exist like TQ does? Lol

LOL, that guy was right. Look up the definition.
You will notice that 'torque' is the measure of 'work'. Work requires a force. That force is torque. All horsepower adds to the equation is time, so horsepower is just the ticking of the clock.

This guy quoted below works with horsepower all the time for his livelihood and this is what he has to say about it.

What This Means
As we proved above, horsepower is simply an extrapolation of torque applied over time. When an engine is measured for its power potential on a dynamometer, horsepower and torque are not measured as separate entities. Rather, torque is measured, and horsepower is then calculated given the torque at the specific RPM level.
Car owners often use “horsepower” as the end-all be-all rating for engine performance. This perspective is flawed. First of all, when you hear of a car having X horsepower, it only refers to the peak horsepower on the dyno graph. Secondly, it doesn’t indicate what the shape of the torque curve is. You can feel the torque that an engine generates as you’re pushed back into your seat.

http://www.roushperformance.com/blog/2010/12/the-meaning-of-horsepower-and-torque/

Bye,,,,, again.

Work is never measured in torque. Tractors, big rigs, motorcycles, cars, pickups, it does not matter, they are all measured in HP.

If I say I can put out 1000 ft/lbs of torque how much work is being done? If I sit on the end of a pipe wrench that is 5' long I'm putting out a little more than 1000 ft/lbs of torque. :)

If you say "torque is a measurement of work" how much work am I doing?

If I build an engine that puts out 1000 ft/lbs of torque and limit the RPM to 1000 how much HP does it produce and how well will this engine work for pulling any RV up mountains? Remember, this engine puts out waaaaaaaaaaaay more torque than even the hottest pickup engines now days.

mich800 wrote:
Here is another way to look at it. You can rough calculate HP by taking quarter mile trap speed with a known vehicle weight. The torque curve can be any of an infinite # of scenarios but the HP is the same. A vehicle with a higher or flatter torque curve may "feel" faster but at the end of the day it is the HP component that did the work.

Horsepower does no work, it is a calculation that tells you how muck work can be done in a time frame.

RCMAN46 wrote:

JPhelps wrote:

Hey T&P. Remember that one person telling us that HP is just a calculation and doesn't really exist like TQ does? Lol

LOL, that guy was right. Look up the definition.
You will notice that 'torque' is the measure of 'work'. Work requires a force. That force is torque. All horsepower adds to the equation is time, so horsepower is just the ticking of the clock.

This guy quoted below works with horsepower all the time for his livelihood and this is what he has to say about it.

What This Means
As we proved above, horsepower is simply an extrapolation of torque applied over time. When an engine is measured for its power potential on a dynamometer, horsepower and torque are not measured as separate entities. Rather, torque is measured, and horsepower is then calculated given the torque at the specific RPM level.
Car owners often use “horsepower” as the end-all be-all rating for engine performance. This perspective is flawed. First of all, when you hear of a car having X horsepower, it only refers to the peak horsepower on the dyno graph. Secondly, it doesn’t indicate what the shape of the torque curve is. You can feel the torque that an engine generates as you’re pushed back into your seat.

http://www.roushperformance.com/blog/2010/12/the-meaning-of-horsepower-and-torque/

Bye,,,,, again.

But if you are talking about a chassis dynamometer (that is what you will find in the field)
They measure horsepower and the torque has to be calculated.

Also torque is not a measurement of work. Torque is only a force measurement. You can have a 1000 ft lbs of torque with no work being done.

But if you have 300 hp work is being done.

When you are being pushed back in you seat that is horsepower.

Being pushed back in your seat is torque overpowering the resistance. Horsepower is just a mathematical calculation that tells you how much torque you are putting out to overcome that resistance.

A 32" diameter tire spins approx 630 rpm at 60mph. If it takes 300hp to climb a hill at 60 mph it doesn't matter whether it is a turbine engine spinning at 34,000rpm @ 47ft lbs of torque or a gas engine at 5000rpm and 320ft lbs or a diesel running at 2500rpm and 640ft lbs or some ridiculous engine at 16rpm and 100,000ft lbs by the time the proper gearing is done all will be putting down the same torque and rpm to the rear axle.

The difference is the engine with the proper gearing spinning at 34000rpm will be much lighter then the engine and gearing for the 16rpm engine so will most likely be able to haul more payload then the 16rpm engine. Same goes for gas or diesel engines.

Here is another way to look at it. You can rough calculate HP by taking quarter mile trap speed with a known vehicle weight. The torque curve can be any of an infinite # of scenarios but the HP is the same. A vehicle with a higher or flatter torque curve may "feel" faster but at the end of the day it is the HP component that did the work.

JPhelps wrote:
LOL, that guy was right. Look up the definition.
You will notice that 'torque' is the measure of 'work'. Work requires a force. That force is torque. All horsepower adds to the equation is time, so horsepower is just the ticking of the clock.

This guy quoted below works with horsepower all the time for his livelihood and this is what he has to say about it.

No, there is another element. Distance. You can apply all the force you want for as long as you want but if it doesn't move, no work is done.

Horsepower is measured in foot pounds per second. The word foot isn't there for decoration.