Rivian Electric 1/2 tons will have similar netwrk to Tesla.

noteven wrote:

Reisender wrote:

noteven wrote:
So this is where the people that engineered 400 ways to connect hydraulic lines ended up...

?

In my time around hyrdraulics which isn't very much I've connected and adapted one to the other:

Pioneer
John Deere
International
Small Pioneer
ORB
Flare
British pipe thread
National Pipe Thread
Acme thread

in metric and inch sizes....

All in the name of moving oil under pressure from point A to point B

So what I meant was - how many ways is there going to be to plug in a battery charger on BEV's?

Why?

Ahh yes. I get it now. So here is the short version. There are essentially three standards.

1. Chademo. Primarily Japanese and some Korean cars. Nissan leaf is the last holdout for Chademo in North America. They are expected to change to CCS next year.

2. CCS. Everybody else (including tesla in Europe now)

3. Tesla. It is the most common only because Teslas make up most EV sales in north america at present. Teslas are also the most coneventient because their plug does both AC and DC charging whereas the others use a separate J1772 plug for AC charging, Teslas can be adapted to either Chademo or CCS though so as long as you have the adapters you can charge anywhere.

Note. The vast majority of public fast chargers have two or sometimes all three of the connectors on them. So its still one stop shopping. Tesla only has tesla plugs, but it is a privately funded and operated network. Tesla has an open invitation to anyone to join their network but nobody has shown interest yet. I think they are in talks with an up and coming manufacturer though.

Here's a few pics that may help with visualizing a little. The other connectors are quite big whereas the Tesla is quite small and easy to handle. The CCS is huge and is known as the Frankenplug. In my opinion it will become the standard in north america some day. But that's just my opinion.



This is an EVGO station that has all three standards. Chademo, CCS and Tesla. Many only have two and don't have the Tesla plug yet. The addition of the Tesla plug is fairly recent...like the last year.



If a tesla driver pulls into a DCFC station and there is no third plug they would have to use an adapter.

Someday I'm sure everyone will get together with a bottle of tequila and figure out a common standard. They did this is Europe with the CCS as the winner. Tesla supercharger stations are still private there but they use the CCS connector.

Reisender wrote:

noteven wrote:
So this is where the people that engineered 400 ways to connect hydraulic lines ended up...

?

In my time around hyrdraulics which isn't very much I've connected and adapted one to the other:

Pioneer
John Deere
International
Small Pioneer
ORB
Flare
British pipe thread
National Pipe Thread
Acme thread

in metric and inch sizes....

All in the name of moving oil under pressure from point A to point B

So what I meant was - how many ways is there going to be to plug in a battery charger on BEV's?

Why?

Reisender wrote:

time2roll wrote:
I could see opening the network to other EV manufacturers at a higher cost. Would still give advantage to Rivian if others helped pay for the network.

Still a few empty spots on the map. Notably highway 93 from Vegas to Twin Falls... a route we take almost every year. Same hole on Tesla network last I checked.

I had thought Rivian was going to focus on out of the way charging spots such as in National Parks. Maybe that will be phase 2.

That hole on 93 sucks. We are hoping to take that route next fall as it is a nice route to end up in the Blythe area. Without a Chademo adapter it is a no go for us. It would be nice to see some significant DCFC installs along there.

I agree. And its possible. Europe did it. Now the standard is CCS there. Meaning pretty much all EV's there use CCS including Tesla. So technically even non Teslas can hook up to a Tesla supercharger there although they can only charge on Superchargers that Tesla has allotted to public use. I have no problem with this as private membership still has its place in the marketplace for a variety of reasons. The other side of the coin is that Teslas can charge anywhere without adapters in europe. Kinda nice.

In North America Teslas can charge at non Tesla public fast chargers but it requires a pricey adapter that can run several hundred dollars depending on brand and standard. We use one infrequently but they are definitely handy. In this province the provincial CCS/Chademo system is extensive and even in off the beaten trek locations. The Superchargers tend to be more on the main highways. The adapter opens up your world quite a bit here.

But yep. Looking forward to the day when they get past this hurdle. In Europe it was easy as they have a strong European Union government. In North America there is no such agency so it will have to be eventually addressed by the manufacturers.

Here is a pic of the wifes model 3 Tesla with the adapter charging form a CCS/Chademo machine. Kinda clunky, but better than waiting for a level 2 fill.

time2roll wrote:
I could see opening the network to other EV manufacturers at a higher cost. Would still give advantage to Rivian if others helped pay for the network.

Still a few empty spots on the map. Notably highway 93 from Vegas to Twin Falls... a route we take almost every year. Same hole on Tesla network last I checked.

I had thought Rivian was going to focus on out of the way charging spots such as in National Parks. Maybe that will be phase 2.

That hole on 93 sucks. We are hoping to take that route next fall as it is a nice route to end up in the Blythe area. Without a Chademo adapter it is a no go for us. It would be nice to see some significant DCFC installs along there.

Reisender wrote:
Well, to be clear, it’s not really proprietary charging, although it’s not explained well in the article. Rivian uses CCS for DCFC and J1772 for L2 or L1 AC charging. So that means they are compatible with every public charger in North America. This network is just a private extension that is for Rivian customers only. It will help with congestion at slower public chargers and slower charging brands that can cause congestion.

Tesla kind of does the same thing but they took it a step further and even use their own plug. Tesla’s can also use public chargers but they use an adapter to do it.

Anyway, JMHO but I see this as a plus for the industry.

I agree, it's a step in the right direction. But I still see it as somewhat proprietary since you have to use a certain charger (i.e. a Tesla has to use a Supercharger) to get fast L3 charging. My opinion is that for EVs to dominate the auto industry they will need to superior in every way to ICE vehicles, including range and ease of refueling on the road. JMHO, but universal L3 charging will be key. I think someday we'll see it.

I could see opening the network to other EV manufacturers at a higher cost. Would still give advantage to Rivian if others helped pay for the network.

Still a few empty spots on the map. Notably highway 93 from Vegas to Twin Falls... a route we take almost every year. Same hole on Tesla network last I checked.

I had thought Rivian was going to focus on out of the way charging spots such as in National Parks. Maybe that will be phase 2.

Tyler0215 wrote:
It would seem to me that all EV manufacturers would adapt a universal standard charge port. I'm sure sometime in the future they will, but why not now? The more availability to charge easily will promote the use of EV's.

To be clear. They (Rivian) are using a common standard. They are using CCS for DC fast charge and J1772 for L2 AC. This is about the development of a private network, not a standard. In other words, any one can hookup to one of their fast chargers, they just won’t be able to charge because there is no way to pay. It’s no different than going to a shell gas station that only accepts shell credit cards, and shell only lets a certain clientele have those credit cards. The Rivian owner just hooks up and billing is automatic. But it is the same standard as every public station. The Rivian can literally charge anywhere where they have a CCS plug...which is pretty much everywhere. It’s just that those stations installed by Rivian will only be useable by Rivian.

Hope that helps.

It would seem to me that all EV manufacturers would adapt a universal standard charge port. I'm sure sometime in the future they will, but why not now? The more availability to charge easily will promote the use of EV's.

noteven wrote:
So this is where the people that engineered 400 ways to connect hydraulic lines ended up...

?

So this is where the people that engineered 400 ways to connect hydraulic lines ended up...