Rivian R1S

spoon059 wrote:

Reisender wrote:
Maybe. But a lot of people tow light as well. Both the lightnings and Rivians have decent towing ranges when towing smaller single axle trailers. We saw one towing a T@B this fall on the Sunshine Coast. Never had a chance to talk to him. Think it was an American plate. He was coming off the ferry and we were getting ready to go on. Sharp looking little truck though. Kind of a darker green colour.

Yup, and some people tow heavy. So it was a legit question. Not sure why people have their knickers in a twist over it...

And this is an RV forum and most folks here are towing Fivers and Travel Trailers. Or maybe planning to do so. Why else would we be looking at Tow Trucks forum? Not of great interest to Class A, B and C Rvers. Not too many camping using a 8 foot Tractor Supply flatbed.

spoon059 wrote:

Reisender wrote:
Maybe. But a lot of people tow light as well. Both the lightnings and Rivians have decent towing ranges when towing smaller single axle trailers. We saw one towing a T@B this fall on the Sunshine Coast. Never had a chance to talk to him. Think it was an American plate. He was coming off the ferry and we were getting ready to go on. Sharp looking little truck though. Kind of a darker green colour.

Yup, and some people tow heavy. So it was a legit question. Not sure why people have their knickers in a twist over it...

Yah I get that. But quite often you see phrases like “it’s no good for towing”. Which is true…for some people. But EV’s can be great tow vehicles for some. Never a good idea to paint with a big brush.

Reisender wrote:
Maybe. But a lot of people tow light as well. Both the lightnings and Rivians have decent towing ranges when towing smaller single axle trailers. We saw one towing a T@B this fall on the Sunshine Coast. Never had a chance to talk to him. Think it was an American plate. He was coming off the ferry and we were getting ready to go on. Sharp looking little truck though. Kind of a darker green colour.

Yup, and some people tow heavy. So it was a legit question. Not sure why people have their knickers in a twist over it...

agesilaus wrote:

Reisender wrote:
It’s an interesting article and I’m sure it’s accurate. But as the article points out this is if the driver was to use on DC fast charging facilities. But just like in North America the vast amount of charging is done at home in your driveway where it is much cheaper. For us it is 6 times cheaper to drive electric than gas when charging at home. When we started to drive EV seven years ago it was 4 times cheaper. So it continues to get cheaper driving an EV. And of course much more convenient, especially in winter.

Hmm wonder why, did the price of fuel go up?

BERLIN—Rocketing electricity prices are increasing the cost of driving electric vehicles in Europe, in some cases making them more expensive to run than gas-powered models—a change that could threaten the continent’s electric transition.  

Germany, yes. Austria and Switzerland as well have higher gas prices than the rest of Europe. All of that is mentioned in the studies I posted as well as the recent rise in prices. EVs are still cheaper to run.

Reisender wrote:
It’s an interesting article and I’m sure it’s accurate. But as the article points out this is if the driver was to use on DC fast charging facilities. But just like in North America the vast amount of charging is done at home in your driveway where it is much cheaper. For us it is 6 times cheaper to drive electric than gas when charging at home. When we started to drive EV seven years ago it was 4 times cheaper. So it continues to get cheaper driving an EV. And of course much more convenient, especially in winter.

Hmm wonder why, did the price of fuel go up?

BERLIN—Rocketing electricity prices are increasing the cost of driving electric vehicles in Europe, in some cases making them more expensive to run than gas-powered models—a change that could threaten the continent’s electric transition.  

It’s an interesting article and I’m sure it’s accurate. But as the article points out this is if the driver was to use on DC fast charging facilities. But just like in North America the vast amount of charging is done at home in your driveway where it is much cheaper. For us it is 6 times cheaper to drive electric than gas when charging at home. When we started to drive EV seven years ago it was 4 times cheaper. So it continues to get cheaper driving an EV. And of course much more convenient, especially in winter.

agesilaus wrote:
In Europe charger costs exceeded gasoline costs.

Thanks. Do you by chance have a source for this? Gas and electric prices vary wildly from country to country in Europe, and a lot depends on whether you charge at home (cheap) or use a fast charging system (most expensive), when you charge or if you have a membership of a particular system, etc. There's a very wide variance.

The most recent study along these lines is from Sept of 2022 and uses numbers from 2019. That study shows it's less expensive to charge an EV than buy gas regardless of country and system.

This is a good summary.
https://www.realclearscience.com/articles/2022/09/22/how_expensive_is_it_to_charge_an_ev_in_europe_and_is_it_really_cheaper_than_gas_854618.html


Here's an extensive, scientific study done by Nature that dives deep into the numbers.

the costs of charging electric vehicles in Europe are largely unknown. Here we develop a systematic classification of charging options, gather extensive market data on equipment cost, and employ a levelized cost approach to model charging costs in 30 European countries (European Union 27, Great Britain, Norway, Switzerland) and for 13 different charging options for private passenger transport. The findings demonstrate a large variance of charging costs across countries and charging options, suggesting different policy options to reduce charging costs. A specific analysis on the impacts and relevance of publicly accessible charging station utilization is performed. The results reveal charging costs at these stations to be competitive with fuel costs at typical utilization rates exhibited already today.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-32835-7


Here's a study done only in England from late 2022 that shows charging an EV is "nearly as expensive" as fuelling up. It still isn't more.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/27/ev-drivers-in-britain-see-jump-in-public-charging-cost-.html

I thought Rivian was going teets up! Maybe I'm mistaken.

At this point, I have absolutely no desire to purchase any EV.

Their natural market is service companies. Electricians and Plumbers etc. That drive locally. And at that price I doubt they will get very far.
The towing ranges I've seen are 100 miles or less. And bigger battery means heavier weight and that means lower carry capacity. An unbreakable problem with chemical batteries.

Furthermore this cold wave has generated all sorts of news stories of people discovering the cold facts of battery life. I saw one of someone trying to go cross country at Christmas and getting a one hundred mile range, and finding that some chargers do no work in cold temps and those that do took two hours for a charge. They spent more time, and lots of money, at chargers than they did driving. In Europe charger costs exceeded gasoline costs.

^ IMO, it's about bang for the buck with whatever purchase one is making that fits their needs or wants. In the case of these severely inflated price "big" EVs, the meter is basically pegged on the "wants" side. And that's fine.
If you want an 11 second midsize wanna be pickup truck that looks like a Hinda Ridgeline got punched in the nose, for a cool $120k+ in pocket change, have at 'er. Stimulate the economy all you want.
Just don't pretend you're "saving" anything. It's like saying you bought a Ferrari because they're aerodynamic which makes them more efficient....

But hey, now the same govt that is subsidizing the EV industry heavily, effectively promoting them is now raising safety concerns about the vehicles weight and how they are more harmful to others in crashes....lol.