I recently purchased a Lance 915 to replace our Squire Lite. The 915 came with a Coleman Mach 13,000 btu AC unit. Having already been through this previously we went with a 9000BTU on our Squire Lite. The Honda would start it in eco mode but it would almost stall out each time on restart. Several years ago when I researched this before I found Dometic Marine division was selling a soft start device called the Smart Start for 16,000btu marine ac units. Cheapest I could find it for was $450.00 at that time. this time I found that the start device was made by Hyper Engineering out of Australia. I guess their agreement with Dometic has expired. They call their same device a "sure start". They listed several various US distributers and being an HVAC Contractor I placed an order through Johnstone Supply (Texas). The price was $250.00 including tax and shipping. Four days later it arrived from their main warehouse.Today I picked it up and installed it into a 2004 Coleman Mach 13,000 btu unit that operates on R22 freon. Much to my suprise it worked flawlessly even at 95+ heat. The installation is pretty straight forward. First you remove the factory start kit then install the "sure start" according to their instructions. The unit does indeed fit inside the electrical compartment along with the factory run capacitors. I'm very pleased even though I wish it were a bit cheaper. I had considered swapping the Polar Cub AC unit from our older camper but I remember there were some days when the 9000 btu's would struggle keeping up especially if the wife was cooking or the kids were running in and out. When the compressors fires up the generator picks up speed nice and smootly unlike the polar cub where is sounded like it was desperate, banging the rev limiter to keep it out of overload. For those interested the Hyper Engineering Model#SS0A12-20SN

That Honda is impressive. My twin Yamaha 2000 struggle to start my Coleman Mach 13,500 btu. When I switch from high fan to low cool, voltage from the twins drops to about 80V and then ramps back up to 120V - this is with them running full throttle, forget about eco mode. Guess I bought the wrong generator.

Make sure you have some sort of start device in your AC unit. The factory start kits are a bit undersized. A Supco SPP6 costs less than $10 at an AC supply house. The SPP6E is suppose to respond quicker if you can find them. The sure start is a whole new animal. It's expensive but so are generators and air conditioners. When voltage drops current increases which means heated motor windings and that will take life off any motor.

I found an SSP6E on Jeff's website, the price wasn't too obscene. I will watch a utube video on it's installation. The tricky part will be accessing the rooftop internals, as my roof is "non walkable."Thanks for the tip!

Installed the cap today, go figure, there was no start cap in the unit, just a run cap. Rating plate states LRA 56, no wonder the twins would struggle!With the cap installed, the compressor kicks right over, and even re-starts without any drama from the twins, they don't bog down at all.I'm not willing to press my luck trying to run just one, FLA for the compressor and fan combined is 13 amps, which is max sustained output for a ef2000is.Thanks a lot for the tip LanceDuyen!

LanceDuyen wrote:I recently purchased a Lance 915 to replace our Squire Lite. The 915 came with a Coleman Mach 13,000 btu AC unit. Having already been through this previously we went with a 9000BTU on our Squire Lite. The Honda would start it in eco mode but it would almost stall out each time on restart. Several years ago when I researched this before I found Dometic Marine division was selling a soft start device called the Smart Start for 16,000btu marine ac units. Cheapest I could find it for was $450.00 at that time. this time I found that the start device was made by Hyper Engineering out of Australia. I guess their agreement with Dometic has expired. They call their same device a "sure start". They listed several various US distributers and being an HVAC Contractor I placed an order through Johnstone Supply (Texas). The price was $250.00 including tax and shipping. Four days later it arrived from their main warehouse.Today I picked it up and installed it into a 2004 Coleman Mach 13,000 btu unit that operates on R22 freon. Much to my suprise it worked flawlessly even at 95+ heat. The installation is pretty straight forward. First you remove the factory start kit then install the "sure start" according to their instructions. The unit does indeed fit inside the electrical compartment along with the factory run capacitors. I'm very pleased even though I wish it were a bit cheaper. I had considered swapping the Polar Cub AC unit from our older camper but I remember there were some days when the 9000 btu's would struggle keeping up especially if the wife was cooking or the kids were running in and out. When the compressors fires up the generator picks up speed nice and smootly unlike the polar cub where is sounded like it was desperate, banging the rev limiter to keep it out of overload. For those interested the Hyper Engineering Model#SS0A12-20SNThx for the tip, I'll PM you...

Sure Start + Honda EU2000 = 13,000 btu Coleman Mach

19 Replies

3_tons
Explorer III
Jul 11, 2016
Ok, time here to fall on my own sword, and I should say (with regards to my previous comments) that all though in my garage 'seat of the pants' testing regime, where I didn't 'notice' any sorta change (the air cond would start and run fine with either the start cap OR the sure-start device in place), please note that it is more than likely that the sure-start will make air cond via generator start-ups a bit easier (and/or possible) when at higher altitudes, and with higher ambient temperatures, both of which flat rob the efficiency from the generators output - this while easing the surge current (in-rush) on the motor windings...I think that in these two regards it may ultimately prove well worth the investment...JMHO,

3 tons
3_tons
Explorer III
Jul 10, 2016
I do that as well with my pro-sine 2.0, and it will run the Air cond without a hitch per elevation, but to simplify, I left it out of the discussion...However, with this strategy, the inverter (a 'pass-thru' type) essentially acts as a virtual generated start-up assist.
pianotuna
Nomad III
Jul 10, 2016
Hi GordonThree,

I run my Yamaha sIEB in eco mode in the mountains. Start up surge is taken care of by the Magnum when I have it set to load support mode (my default setting).

In fact, I do have a remote start for the generator--so I often engage the generator after the roof air has already started.

With the Magnum "out of the circuit" I can still start and run the roof air (13500 btu) in eco mode, but the voltage does a huge dip to 98 volts. Running full bore still engenders a fairly hefty voltage drop.

I do not know if there is a large start capacitor or not.

GordonThree wrote:
We need Don to install one of these, and see if his hybrid inverter will let the AC re-start with a generator running in eco mode.
3_tons
Explorer III
Jul 10, 2016
Well on a follow-up note, I'm hoping however that the sure start will make a difference when running the air conditioning at high altitudes.... Our last excursion at 7400' and 95d F in the high Nevada desert, the Honda could not run the Coleman no matter what..luckily it was very pleasant come the evenings!
GordonThree
Explorer
Jul 10, 2016
I'm wondering if I could add a SPP4E to my dehumidifier. It has a smaller compressor than the Coleman AC, but still makes the generators struggle when it tries to restart.
towpro
Explorer
Jul 10, 2016
I tried the SPP6 on my 9600 and I thought the compressor was making more of a grown when it was starting, so I switched back and returned it. But I am starting mine by interrupting the power supply with a relay which is controlled by the thermostat.
GordonThree
Explorer
Jul 09, 2016
Instruction manual for my Yamaha states eco must be off when powering compressors, saws, anything with a big motor. Does Honda make a similar recommendation?

You have two different firmware fighting each other. one in the sure start, one in the generator's inverter. I tried running my twins in eco, and could not restart my 13.5k, even with the supco installed, the generators didnt even try, they'd spool up a little and then go into overload.

We need Don to install one of these, and see if his hybrid inverter will let the AC re-start with a generator running in eco mode.
3_tons
Explorer III
Jul 09, 2016
Where's the Beef?? (LoL)

Well I pulled the trigger and installed the sure-start on my 11 K but Coleman Mach 1 p.s. My goal was to see if I could run the Honda in the Eco-mode but it made zero noticeable difference whatsoever. Since the supplied generic schematic was not a direct representation with my air unit configuration, I spent hours on the phone with Hyper Engineering to make certain that the connections were correct...Their techs were also very confused but an engineer stepped in and was very helpful...I could not have hooked it up using the basic schematic...What it's supposed to do is simply prolong the start-up from about 1/4 sec to 1 sec using a firmware and software approach...maybe in the long run it will be better for the windings, but that's all..

3 tons
GordonThree
Explorer
Jul 09, 2016
pianotuna wrote:
GordonThree,

Which one offers the best protection for the air conditioner?

Sorry, I don't really know that much about the engineering. If you believe the SUPCO information, the E class offers better protection, as it uses both a potential sensing relay versus a thermal resistor.

The thermal resistor (called a PTC) is going to have a heat up / cool down cycle, meaning if your compressor cycles off and back on too quickly (possibly by adjusting the thermostat), the PTC might not be ready, and the compressor will have to start without benefit of the start capacitor.

As I understand it, a potential relay on the other hand senses load on the motor and cuts out once the compressor is up to speed, and is ready to kick in the start capacitor again right away, there is no cool-down.

Supco goes on to explain the downside of a potential sensing relay; if the capacitor is too big for the compressor, the excess capacitance will prevent the relay from sensing that the motor is up to speed, and leave the start windings/capacitor in circuit, risking damage to the motor or capacitor. Supco states the E class start kits have an additional time-delay circuit that will disconnect the cap before it stays in circuit for too long.

The OP's Sure-Start product probably offers the best protection, as it is an active device (the supco are passive). The electronics of the Sure-Start likely monitor the motor and adjust to its needs, rather than a one size fits most solution like the Supco kits. Its wiring is more complicated though, not a simple add-on like the Supco, and the cost is 10x.

I guess one could consider the Supco cheap insurance, and the Sure-Start good insurance :)
pianotuna
Nomad III
Jul 09, 2016
GordonThree,

Which one offers the best protection for the air conditioner?

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Sure Start + Honda EU2000 = 13,000 btu Coleman Mach

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