These unreliable new diesel engines!

Fordlover wrote:

I was very surprised when my friend's 2005 cummins with about 65K on the clock lost the injector tip about two years ago. He had to get a tow and a 5K injector job performed (this was parts and labor). A family friend's Ford 6.0 that had to be replaced big $$$. My uncles' 2006 cummins needed a new engine at 115K miles, more big $$$. A very close mechanic friend of mine tells me stories of Audi's, Porsche, BMW diesels that are requiring 8 to 12+k complete fuel system repairs at his shop. These aren't anecdotes to me, these are people I know who are honest with me.

I would tell your friend to get his fuel at a different location or at least drain his fuel water separator at regular intervals because injector blow out is mainly caused by water in the fuel. It could also be the fuel in the area you live in if you are actually having that many people with problems.

When I was at Cummins, we had a large quantity of fuel contamination failures happen in a certain area. It turned out that the local small fuel station that many of these people were getting their fuel from were not replacing their tank breathers allowing for water collect in the fuel through condensation and the drivers were not draining their fuel water separators like they should. It is hard to compress water so you can imagine what it does to an injector when you are trying to squeeze it out of it's tiny holes at 25,000 psi. Many 2010+ diesels have moved to having two fuel filters instead of one for this very reason.

However, if we are just pointing out worst case scenarios, I have plenty I can share about gas engines and even a few rods going through blocks due to timing chain failures or a block having to machined because the spark plug popped. I don't concentrate on worst case scenarios and would rather look at the good and bad as a whole to come to a conclusion.

Fordlover wrote:
As with most decisions, desire, need, and preference play a big part in the Diesel vs. Gas debate. Personally I love diesels, I just can't justify the cost for a truck that will spend a lot of time sitting in the driveway as a play toy, not making me money. And the idea that I will recoup some/most of my 8,500 bucks 12 to 15 years down the road doesn't make spending the 8,500 any more attractive to me on a depreciating asset. Truck buyers can do the same evaluation and come away with a different decision than mine.

Something is wrong if you feel the need you have to justify a diesel. You either want one for the pros or you don't due to the cons, simple as that. No need to only look at worst case scenarios in order to make yourself feel better about your truck buying decisions. There are pros and cons with everything and we can be here for years if you want to only point worst case scenario instances of both gas and diesel engines.

ShinerBock wrote:

Fordlover wrote:


Agreed, but exposure to high cost repairs is always going to be higher with the Diesel.

Major repairs on a diesel (even if very rare) can cost 5 grand, 10 grand, etc. Gas V8 repairs are unlikely to ever touch those kinds of numbers.

Also a benefit, I can replace injectors on a 6.2 V8 in the event a tip breaks off in an afternoon for a less than a grand. On even the storied Cummins that cost is going to be closer to 5 grand and I personally wouldn't attempt the repair, and this is after you've paid 6 to 9 grand for the diesel engine.

If money was no object, I'd opt for the Diesel, but as it is I'm shopping for a 6.2 gas, and the extra payload is just a nice bonus.

Most diesel injectors will last between 200-250k miles which is about the time you will be replacing most gas engines(besides a few unicorns) in a trucks duty cycle. Also, Cummins solenoid injectors do not cost 5 grand. Maybe the expensive piezo injectors found on the Dmax and PSD cost that much.

Lastly, most of the 6 to 9 grand you spend on a diesel is paid back on resale since most diesel HD trucks with 100k miles sell for a lot more then a gas HD truck with 100k miles. Same goes for a V8 Mustang over a V6 Mustang. Yeah the V8 costs more up front, but it commands a much higher resale. A gas HD truck buyer is similar the a V6 Mustang owner in the fact that they did not want pay more upfront front or any other added costs for the V8 and are willing to compromise the performance instead of paying more.

However, the topic of this thread is NOT diesel versus gas costs. It is the reliability of newer diesels in comparison because some seem to think they have much higher failure rates in a truck duty cycle.

I was very surprised when my friend's 2005 cummins with about 65K on the clock lost the injector tip about two years ago. He had to get a tow and a 5K injector job performed (this was parts and labor). A family friend's Ford 6.0 that had to be replaced big $$$. My uncles' 2006 cummins needed a new engine at 115K miles, more big $$$. A very close mechanic friend of mine tells me stories of Audi's, Porsche, BMW diesels that are requiring 8 to 12+k complete fuel system repairs at his shop. These aren't anecdotes to me, these are people I know who are honest with me.

As with most decisions, desire, need, and preference play a big part in the Diesel vs. Gas debate. Personally I love diesels, I just can't justify the cost for a truck that will spend a lot of time sitting in the driveway as a play toy, not making me money. And the idea that I will recoup some/most of my 8,500 bucks 12 to 15 years down the road doesn't make spending the 8,500 any more attractive to me on a depreciating asset. Truck buyers can do the same evaluation and come away with a different decision than mine.

ShinerBock wrote:
Cummins changed from EGR cooler #4988884 to a higher flow/higher capacity EGR cooler #4988885 in 2013 along with some other improvements(SCR), and no longer recommends EGR valve cleaning at 67k miles. Although this was mainly for short trip or long idle trucks, and trucks that did a lot of highway miles did not need this EGR cleaning in many cases.

I cleaned my EGR and EGR Cooler for the 1st time at approximately 235,000 mile on my 2012 RAM 3500. I drive mainly highway, but there are quite a few city miles too... I do have a lot of idle time too, but mostly high-idle. I have been very impressed with this truck.

RVman / John

ShinerBock wrote:
Cummins changed from EGR cooler #4988884 to a higher flow/higher capacity EGR cooler #4988885 in 2013 along with some other improvements(SCR), and no longer recommends EGR valve cleaning at 67k miles. Although this was mainly for short trip or long idle trucks, and trucks that did a lot of highway miles did not need this EGR cleaning in many cases.

Thank you... worried I was missing something.

Mike

Cummins12V98 wrote:
"If I was building a truck to take me into the wilderness of Alaska, or South America, it would not have a post 2010 diesel."

I would stick with a 98 12 Valve with a 6 speed stick. Basic good stuff with no electronics. Truck will run without the PCM.

I did similar with my 2013 Freightliner. I bought a new truck, minus motor and transmission. Dropped in a pre-emission factory remanned 2000 MY Detroit motor and factory remanned 18 speed. Not nearly the problems of the emission engine crowd. 810,000 miles on it to date and only a couple of exhaust manifold bolts replaced on the motor. Still only uses about 1 qt of oil in 11,000 miles. Just got back the used oil sample report on the last oil change and it looks as good as when the motor had 40,000 miles on it.

Doing this is all within EPA regulations. Just too bad that one cannot buy a new pickup truck thru the OEM parts stream and do the same thing. Some of the heavy truck OEM's are not so myopic.

"If I was building a truck to take me into the wilderness of Alaska, or South America, it would not have a post 2010 diesel."

I would stick with a 98 12 Valve with a 6 speed stick. Basic good stuff with no electronics. Truck will run without the PCM.

A cummins diesel engine post 98.5 is no where near as reliable as one pree 98.5, this includes the P7100 injection pump back to 94 and the VE injection pump from 93 down to 89,

every now and then you hear about one a post 99 going 3, 4, even 500,000 miles with out much trouble, and some 1,000,000.

I have at least 10 friends with onl Dodges with more than 400k without anything other than things like, a seal, a water pump, or the such, but with new ideas comes more things to fail and more cost to repair, they make it seem like they are not as good.


If I was building a truck to take me into the wilderness of Alaska, or South America, it would not have a post 2010 diesel.

Range Maggot Bob wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:
Apparently my 2014 Ram Cummins with almost 100k miles on it must be a unicorn in the fact that it hasn't broke down on me yet because many people here(mostly non late model diesel owners) think that new 2010+ emission diesel trucks are just unreliable and will leave you in the shop more than on the road. Now I do agree that there were many issues when the emissions systems first came out as with anything new and some diesels with a CP4 pump did have issues.


So to all you 2010+ diesel truck owners, please post your year, engine, mileage, and how much time & and money spent on repairs (not maintenance) to the engine or emissions system along with what was done. I will start it off.


2014 Cummins
96k miles
$0 repairs
0 time on warrantable engine or emission system repairs
1 engine recall performed - replaced waterpump(which was still working fine)

RAM 2014 CTD
10K miles
$0 repairs
3 oil changes
2 DEF fill-ups
At least 4 recalls

Shiner- how come only 1 recall? I've had 4. Getting to know the service guy by his first name...

That 2014, at least mine has had 7 recalls, two still pending.

Cummins changed from EGR cooler #4988884 to a higher flow/higher capacity EGR cooler #4988885 in 2013 along with some other improvements(SCR), and no longer recommends EGR valve cleaning at 67k miles. Although this was mainly for short trip or long idle trucks, and trucks that did a lot of highway miles did not need this EGR cleaning in many cases.

Wild Card wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
"What year Ram? I see nothing in the 2014 2500 Diesel supplement at 67,500 for any EGR cooler or valve cleaning"

See below from my 2015 user guide, all 2013 and above require this service. 2007.5-2012 have different requirements.

That's the crank case vent filter...nothing about egr.

Supposedly the DEF trucks don't need egr component cleaning.

Dont know about pre 2012 but 2012's need the EGR valve and cooler cleaned at 67,500 miles.
The guy had a 2012 so thats why I asked. It's $$$ to have the dealer do it and a PITA to DIY. With 244,000 miles on his truck he's either done it 3 times, never done it or deleted it.
Section 7, page 149 in the Ram diesels supplement.