Towing in the real world. gas or diesel

transamz9 wrote:
You have one of the worst diesel engines put in a light duty truck as far as cost to keep going so you have a bad taste in your mouth. 2009 was not really a good year for any of them. I urge you to reconsider your train of thoughts.

This! The 2008-2010 diesels of any kind were some of the worst diesels ever due to the newly added emissions systems that were prone to fail as with anything new. I compare them to the 1997-2003 gas vehicles that were failure prone due to the newly added EGR systems, O2 sensors, and what not to meet the new gas emissions laws. However, just like those emissions systems became more reliable as time went on, so has the emissions systems in the diesels.

Today's DPF/EGR/SCR diesel emissions systems are leaps and bounds ahead in terms of reliability when compared to the early years of DPF/EGR/DOC only systems . Unfortunately there are many here who still mistakenly place the same negative stigma of those early engines on today's diesel engines thinking they are the same.

soren wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
From a pure safety standpoint I would never consider towing 12K with a gasser down 6-14% grades. What a pleasure it is to go down these grades without touching the brakes and knowing you have cool brakes if needed.

Now as mentioned ya may want to look at trucks from the last 5 model years. IMHO the RAM trucks have proven to be very dependable with their electronics and drivetrains. Also they have the gold standard Bosch CP3 injection pump. GM and Ford used the CP4, GM gave up on that with so many warranty claims they now use the Denso pump.

I can't imagine how many tens(hundreds?) of thousands of us are driving large gas motorhomes, on top of the Ford F53 chassis, with hill descent control built into the transmission. I have made many trips in and out of Yellowstone, from Eastern WY. in my ten year old 21K gasser. Doesn't matter how steep the grande is, or how long. My gasser gets to the bottom with brakes that are stone cold. With the right drivetrain, and skill set, descending the biggest mountains in North America is a total non-event. That said, I'm still amazed by all the concern for "screaming gas engines". It's not 1975 anymore. They are made to perform for hundreds of thousands of miles, with the RPMS up in the power band, when needed. My v-10 regularly cracks mid-5K when pulling out from a stop , or attacking a grade. The motor is maintained with an OEM filter and oil, every 5k and has 80K on it. Not much compared to a hot shot delivery driver, running a one ton diesel for a living, but quite a bit for a motorhome of this age. It doesn't need any oil between changes.

I have a different view of this as a prior diesel motorhome, and pickup owner. In the OP's position, I would find a 3-4 YO gas pickup and take advantage of the soft resale numbers on gassers. Having spent the last three years,putting 50K miles on a gas V-10, moving 25K pounds on a regular basis, I know that a diesel motor is a better option to do the job, but far from a requirement.

The V-10 is only available in chassis cabs, cut aways and stripped chassis. Smaller platforms are not offered with this engine.

I looked at getting a gasser rather than diesel to avoid the additional cost and complexity, but realized I was too borderline with all the mountain driving I do at my current 18-26K GCW. Due to the lower fuel mileage, it would also require more frequent stops or a larger gasoline tank.

rvrev2 wrote:

jlrmfc21 wrote:
Find a low mileage 8.1 with 4.10 gears. It has low end torque and will be an option for you.

X2 on the 8.1. I live in central Kansas and tow a 33' HitchHiker. My 8.1 engine does not scream traveling I-70 at 65 mph, and into a headwind. My old 454 sure did, however.

The 8.1 came with the 5 speed Allison transmission, same as the Duramax. Too bad they don't make them any more. I believe the '06 models came with the 6 speed Allison. My 8.1 also ran the 3.73 gears.

A steep grade will cause it to run the higher RPM's however. No way around that. But repairs and parts are far cheaper than a Duramax.

If I wanted a new truck, since they don't make the big block gassers anymore, I would opt for the diesel. But my '05 8.1 is doing great right now and I have no plans on replacing it anytime soon.

our 2001 3500 chev 8.1 with the 4:10 was a joy going down the mountains from previous trucks. As good as the 05 duramax. Uphill the duramax wins.
chevman

jlrmfc21 wrote:
Find a low mileage 8.1 with 4.10 gears. It has low end torque and will be an option for you.

X2 on the 8.1. I live in central Kansas and tow a 33' HitchHiker. My 8.1 engine does not scream traveling I-70 at 65 mph, and into a headwind. My old 454 sure did, however.

The 8.1 came with the 5 speed Allison transmission, same as the Duramax. Too bad they don't make them any more. I believe the '06 models came with the 6 speed Allison. My 8.1 also ran the 3.73 gears.

A steep grade will cause it to run the higher RPM's however. No way around that. But repairs and parts are far cheaper than a Duramax.

If I wanted a new truck, since they don't make the big block gassers anymore, I would opt for the diesel. But my '05 8.1 is doing great right now and I have no plans on replacing it anytime soon.

valhalla360 wrote:

Edd505 wrote:
Simple question, how many class 8 80,000 GVW gas trucks do you see?

False comparison.

His GCVWR is only around 1/4 of what a semi is.

He's probably not putting on 100,000 miles per year.

Ignoring the false reasoning, at 12k, you are looking at borderline diesel territory. If you will be in the Colorado mountains regularly the turbo on the diesel will really make a difference at altitude.

PS: A question, what about the high RPM bothers you?
- It's not likely to cause any damage.
- Yeah, it will be burning a lot of fuel but so will the diesel in the same conditions.

Maybe the sound dampening is better than in 04 but it scared the %^&% out of me. It just seemed to struggle to do anything. I pull 5-6000 miles per year.

I appreciate the comments and I know the pain of the fuel pump. Keep them up. You're pulling me back from the precipice. Is anyone happy with a gasser and a 12000# RV?

Cummins12V98 wrote:
From a pure safety standpoint I would never consider towing 12K with a gasser down 6-14% grades. What a pleasure it is to go down these grades without touching the brakes and knowing you have cool brakes if needed.

Now as mentioned ya may want to look at trucks from the last 5 model years. IMHO the RAM trucks have proven to be very dependable with their electronics and drivetrains. Also they have the gold standard Bosch CP3 injection pump. GM and Ford used the CP4, GM gave up on that with so many warranty claims they now use the Denso pump.

I can't imagine how many tens(hundreds?) of thousands of us are driving large gas motorhomes, on top of the Ford F53 chassis, with hill descent control built into the transmission. I have made many trips in and out of Yellowstone, from Eastern WY. in my ten year old 21K gasser. Doesn't matter how steep the grande is, or how long. My gasser gets to the bottom with brakes that are stone cold. With the right drivetrain, and skill set, descending the biggest mountains in North America is a total non-event. That said, I'm still amazed by all the concern for "screaming gas engines". It's not 1975 anymore. They are made to perform for hundreds of thousands of miles, with the RPMS up in the power band, when needed. My v-10 regularly cracks mid-5K when pulling out from a stop , or attacking a grade. The motor is maintained with an OEM filter and oil, every 5k and has 80K on it. Not much compared to a hot shot delivery driver, running a one ton diesel for a living, but quite a bit for a motorhome of this age. It doesn't need any oil between changes.

I have a different view of this as a prior diesel motorhome, and pickup owner. In the OP's position, I would find a 3-4 YO gas pickup and take advantage of the soft resale numbers on gassers. Having spent the last three years,putting 50K miles on a gas V-10, moving 25K pounds on a regular basis, I know that a diesel motor is a better option to do the job, but far from a requirement.

Usnthedog wrote:
I've been down the gas road in 04 and the diesel in 09. Looking to buy again. I had a lighter trailer in 04 but my siverado 6+ liter gas would just scream in a head wind. 4000 rpm was common. Bigger trailer and a power stroke diesel. Just fine but diesels are a PIA and costly. OK, I've read posts where it works out in the end but I'm tired of the diesel and would like to go back to gas. Here's the set up. 12,000# fifth wheel, medium height. With the new techs and trannies will any of the big three pull this without blowing piston out the hood. Middle of Kansas so lots of wind and Colorado Mountains. Is there a gasser in a 3/4 ton out there that will pull it at 65-70 mph and not peak out in rpm? Real life not book, please.

Thanks for your input,

Jeff

I usually tow in 5th in my 2017 F250 (around 9500lbs TT), but it will downshift on steep inclines and hard winds as low as 3rd...which is 4k rpms and loud as &^%$.

There is only one gas engine that I know of that would do what you want, and unfortunately it only comes in a half ton Ford.

From a pure safety standpoint I would never consider towing 12K with a gasser down 6-14% grades. What a pleasure it is to go down these grades without touching the brakes and knowing you have cool brakes if needed.

Now as mentioned ya may want to look at trucks from the last 5 model years. IMHO the RAM trucks have proven to be very dependable with their electronics and drivetrains. Also they have the gold standard Bosch CP3 injection pump. GM and Ford used the CP4, GM gave up on that with so many warranty claims they now use the Denso pump.

When it comes to towing a heavy RV trailer, 10K or larger diesel wins.
The only advantage the gasser has is initial cost. If you consider resale value initial cost is not an advantage either.

Find a low mileage 8.1 with 4.10 gears. It has low end torque and will be an option for you.