Towing issue

Terryallan wrote:

Ron Gratz wrote:

Terryallan wrote:
A 1 to 2" drop does not a V make. that is in truth not much of a drop at all, and would barely be noticeable.---

Some people consider a 2" drop to be unacceptable.
If they want to use air bags in conjunction with a WDH to eliminate the drop, that's their prerogative.
They do need to use the air bags correctly so they don't interfere with the load transfer.

there is a reason the WDH instructions tell you the rear should not be HIGHER than it was unhooked.

The WDH instructions warn against adjusting the WDH to make the rear end higher.
Doing so would mean you have transferred too much load to the front axle, and removed too much load from the rear.

Using air bags to restore the rear end to its unhooked height does not cause load to be added to the front tires, and does not remove load from the rear.

Ron

Ron. I think we agreed there. Especially on the WDH shouldn't raise the rear too high thing.

However. I would only consider it a V if the headlights were hunting coons. Meaning no weight on the front.

The other consideration for jacking-up the back end..

I have an extra leaf spring added to my truck to reduce the amount of bounce between the truck and trailer over bumps. With the WDH hitch operating correctly, I still found my suspension to be a little soft and the extra spring took care of that problem.

Ron Gratz wrote:

Terryallan wrote:
No disrespect to you either. but if you had a V after the hitch was setup. It was not correct. You can pick the rear wheels of the truck OFF the ground with a WDH.

With respect to everyone -- having a "V" might or might not be a problem.
It depends on the degree of "V".

If a WDH is adjusted to return the front axle load to the unhitched value,
the rear axle will have an added load equal to around 75-80% of the tongue weight.
This much added load might cause the rear end of the TV to drop by 1-2"

As long as the rear GAW does not exceed the GAWR, there's nothing wrong with having that much rear-end drop.
If you don't like having that much drop, then go ahead and use air bags to make the TV "level".
Just remember that, if you raise the rear of the TV after you adjust the WDH, the amount of load transfer will be decreased.

Ron

You explained this perfectly!

Terryallan wrote:

jaycocreek wrote:
Well Terry.. No disrespect meant.

When I bought my 2010 Keystone and the guys at the dealer setup my hitch whom do it for a living, I had the same problem as the op. The dreaded V on a brand spanking new Ford F-150.

The hitch was setup properly but it needed more Springs or air bags. I chose air bags this time and it worked perfectly with this trailer and others I pull on a regular basis.

The opp asked if anyone had tried them and what they thought, having had the exact same problem as he has, I replied yes they work and my WD hitch was setup right.

Another or different hitch would not have solved my problem.

Have a nice day.

No disrespect to you either. but if you had a V after the hitch was setup. It was not correct. You can pick the rear wheels of the truck OFF the ground with a WDH.

My problem was the undersized tension bars. The dealer provided 400-600 lb bars and the loaded weight of the trailer is actually 6006 lbs last time I hit the scales.

I upgraded to the 801-1200 lb bars and that did the trick! I don't have the bars bending anymore under load, now they are perfectly straight and parallel to the trailer tongue.

Terryallan wrote:

jaycocreek wrote:
To each his own. I pull a 10K wood trailer without a WD hitch and the air bags are one of the reasons I can do that besides other mods. It pulls just fine.

Air bags are not a replacement for a WD hitch but are a huge improvement over the factory setup. I regularly pull a heavy tongued 24ft Security travel trailer workout a WD hitch.

The only reason I even commented was to many people here talk down air bags with out ever having used them and seeing in person what they do and don't do.

I did have a TV with air bags. I stand by my statement. Air bags will level your "rig". But they will NOT transfer any lost weight back to the steering axle, and so it will remain lite, and cause sway. That is what the WDH does. Return lost weight, and so steering control to the steering axle.

You are correct, but air bags (or extra leafs, load helpers, ect) will help somewhat.

My SUV has airbags inside the coils, I use them to stay level for my trips when I have a cargo box in the trailer hitch. If I deflate the airbags and the back end sags, the SUV is much harder to steer and control. With the bags inflated, and the SUV level, it is far easier to steer and control.

If I remove the weight from the back, it is even better.

I agree that weight transfer makes a huge difference, but leveling alone can make a significant difference also.

Obviously the best scenario is to transfer the correct amount of weight back to the front axle, but the second best scenario is just to get the truck level again. The worst scenario is to have zero weight transfer and a completely sagged / out of level truck.

My experience with a 2003 F-150 at 0-500 pounds over GVWR and 3/3 ton Suburban well 500 pounds under GVWR are:

If a WDH is adjusted such that the front axle weight is fully restored, rear suspension aids are not necessary. there is more than 1.5" of rear suspension drop with the front axle weight restored, then the TV is overloaded. Even at 500 pounds over GVWR, my prior F-150 never looked overweight, no V-shape as some people call it.


Wait on air bags, overload springs, etc. Spend $15 at a CAT scale to understand your true weights and how well that WDH is adjusted. Read the link Barney provided on how to adjust a WDH. The so called experienced RV dealer/service have a lot of complaints from owners with regard to WDH adjustment. Between not adjusting correctly up front and owners changing the tongue weight, many TT owners experience poor stability due to poorly adjusted WDH.

jaycocreek wrote:

To each his own. I pull a 10K wood trailer without a WD hitch and the air bags are one of the reasons I can do that besides other mods. It pulls just fine.

Air bags are not a replacement for a WD hitch but are a huge improvement over the factory setup. I regularly pull a heavy tongued 24ft Security travel trailer workout a WD hitch.

Your receiver is not rated to do that. Neither was the truck designed to do so. You are likely exceeding the rear axle as well with both trailers. Rear suspension aids tend to mask these overloaded situations as you say, it looks and tows fine.

Hi Tom - In addition to proper WDH setup try adding a set of Timbren's. They are awesome. I've put them on my last 3 trucks. Easy to install. Fairly inexpensive. Nothing mechanical to ever fail or mess with. See the vid below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ekUff1zPG80

Ron Gratz wrote:

Terryallan wrote:
A 1 to 2" drop does not a V make. that is in truth not much of a drop at all, and would barely be noticeable.---

Some people consider a 2" drop to be unacceptable.
If they want to use air bags in conjunction with a WDH to eliminate the drop, that's their prerogative.
They do need to use the air bags correctly so they don't interfere with the load transfer.

there is a reason the WDH instructions tell you the rear should not be HIGHER than it was unhooked.

The WDH instructions warn against adjusting the WDH to make the rear end higher.
Doing so would mean you have transferred too much load to the front axle, and removed too much load from the rear.

Using air bags to restore the rear end to its unhooked height does not cause load to be added to the front tires, and does not remove load from the rear.

Ron

Ron. I think we agreed there. Especially on the WDH shouldn't raise the rear too high thing.

However. I would only consider it a V if the headlights were hunting coons. Meaning no weight on the front.

Terryallan wrote:
A 1 to 2" drop does not a V make. that is in truth not much of a drop at all, and would barely be noticeable.---

Some people consider a 2" drop to be unacceptable.
If they want to use air bags in conjunction with a WDH to eliminate the drop, that's their prerogative.
They do need to use the air bags correctly so they don't interfere with the load transfer.

there is a reason the WDH instructions tell you the rear should not be HIGHER than it was unhooked.

The WDH instructions warn against adjusting the WDH to make the rear end higher.
Doing so would mean you have transferred too much load to the front axle, and removed too much load from the rear.

Using air bags to restore the rear end to its unhooked height does not cause load to be added to the front tires, and does not remove load from the rear.

Ron

Ron Gratz wrote:

Terryallan wrote:
No disrespect to you either. but if you had a V after the hitch was setup. It was not correct. You can pick the rear wheels of the truck OFF the ground with a WDH.

With respect to everyone -- having a "V" might or might not be a problem.
It depends on the degree of "V".

If a WDH is adjusted to return the front axle load to the unhitched value,
the rear axle will have an added load equal to around 75-80% of the tongue weight.
This much added load might cause the rear end of the TV to drop by 1-2"

As long as the rear GAW does not exceed the GAWR, there's nothing wrong with having that much rear-end drop.
If you don't like having that much drop, then go ahead and use air bags to make the TV "level".
Just remember that, if you raise the rear of the TV after you adjust the WDH, the amount of load transfer will be decreased.

Ron

A 1 to 2" drop does not a V make. that is in truth not much of a drop at all, and would barely be noticeable. My truck drops over 1". But the TT, and TV sit level. there is no V at all. Trucks sit high in the back unloaded. they can drop some, and still be level.

there is a reason the WDH instructions tell you the rear should not be HIGHER than it was unhooked.

Terryallan wrote:
No disrespect to you either. but if you had a V after the hitch was setup. It was not correct. You can pick the rear wheels of the truck OFF the ground with a WDH.

With respect to everyone -- having a "V" might or might not be a problem.
It depends on the degree of "V".

If a WDH is adjusted to return the front axle load to the unhitched value,
the rear axle will have an added load equal to around 75-80% of the tongue weight.
This much added load might cause the rear end of the TV to drop by 1-2"

As long as the rear GAW does not exceed the GAWR, there's nothing wrong with having that much rear-end drop.
If you don't like having that much drop, then go ahead and use air bags to make the TV "level".
Just remember that, if you raise the rear of the TV after you adjust the WDH, the amount of load transfer will be decreased.

Ron