Forum Discussion
- Timmo_Explorer IIMaybe we are watching one of the best "3 card monte" games ever.
1. Timing of GM announcement was just days after Biden signs EO on Climate Change.
A new president took office this month determined to fight climate change. Wall Street investors think Tesla is worth more than General Motors, Toyota, Volkswagen and Ford put together. And China, the world’s biggest car market, recently ordered that most new cars be powered by electricity in just 15 years.
Those large forces help explain the decision by G.M.’s chief executive, Mary T. Barra, that the company will aim to sell only zero-emission cars and trucks by 2035.
Her announcement, just a day after President Biden signed an executive order on climate change, blindsided rivals who usually seek to present a united message on emissions and other policy issues. But it was also years in the making. G.M. has had a love-hate relationship with electric cars going back decades, but under Ms. Barra, who took over in 2014, it has inched its way toward a full embrace of the technology.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/29/business/general-motors-electric-cars.html
But wait, let's look at GM Canada--
While a zero-emissions future is core to GM’s strategy — just this week it announced its global operations and vehicles will be carbon neutral by 2040 — pickup trucks now account for 40% of its sales in Canada, and the company can’t afford to ignore that market. The national devotion to big vehicles only gained strength during the pandemic, as consumers opted for hefty vehicles that could tow campers and boats on in-country vacations. Even as Ford and Chrysler Fiat announced their plans for consumer EVs, GM resurrected a largely shuttered plant in Oshawa, Ontario, pledging to return to building traditional Chevrolet Silverado and Sierra pickup trucks powered with internal combustion engines.
“We’re playing on both ends here,” Bell acknowledged, “but the end game is to get to 100% EV.” Still, boosting Canada’s EV penetration to 25% to 30% by the end of the decade would be “a big move,” Bell says, and it will likely take a further decade to reach full adoption.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-29/canada-s-ev-agenda-is-getting-supercharged-by-biden-ford-and-gm
2. Tesla (larges EV manufacturer) loses money selling EV's; but rakes in big bucks selling "regulatory credits" to other car manufacturers.
Tesla posted its first full year of net income in 2020 — but not because of sales to its customers.
Eleven states require automakers sell a certain percentage of zero-emissions vehicles by 2025. If they can’t, the automakers have to buy regulatory credits from another automaker that meets those requirements — such as Tesla, which exclusively sells electric cars.
It’s a lucrative business for Tesla — bringing in $3.3 billion over the course of the last five years, nearly half of that in 2020 alone. The $1.6 billion in regulatory credits it received last year far outweighed Tesla’s net income of $721 million — meaning Tesla would have otherwise posted a net loss in 2020.
“These guys are losing money selling cars. They’re making money selling credits. And the credits are going away,” said Gordon Johnson of GLJ Research and one of the biggest bears on Tesla shares.
https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/02/01/teslas-dirty-little-secret-its-net-profit-doesnt-come-from-selling-cars/
3. As California goes, so goes the rest of the nation. $1.5 billion subsidy (taking money from my pocket and putting into yours) Newsom targeted for "transportation electrification", $500 million to fund EV purchases and $1 billion to build charging stations.
California Gov. Gavin Newsom is putting his money where his mouth is when it comes to electrifying transportation. Following up on the ambitious executive order he issued last September, mandating that all new passenger vehicle sales in the state be zero emissions by 2035, Newsom is including $1.5 billion for transportation electrification in the $227.2 billion 2021-2022 budget he unveiled Friday.
The budget proposal includes $500 million in funding for low-income Californians to purchase cleaner vehicles, as well as funds to support the purchase of clean trucks, buses, and off-road freight equipment. It also earmarks $1 billion to build electric charging and hydrogen fueling stations between now and 2025.
https://spectrumnews1.com/ca/la-west/environment/2021/01/08/california-will-invest--1-5-billion-to-electrify-transportation-as-part-of-2021-budget
Moral of the story:
All Executive Orders issued by a US Prez can be undone by his successor.
All "marketing plans" issued by a GM's CEO can be undone by her successor.
All monies spent by "governments" come from their taxpayers; taking money from my pocket and putting it into your pockets is simply "income/wealth redistribution".
FOLLOW THE MONEY! - Yosemite_Sam1Explorer
Reisender wrote:
Interesting point of view on gas and stranded assets.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/gasoline-is-becoming-worthless-210636353.html
Agree.
They can still hold the line at some point because of their higher margins on trucks.
But when production drop,, due to lower demand and sales, and capacity utilization on their huge assembly facilities goes done, that huge fixed costs can no longer be absorbed and might be time for them to shut it down and sell the factory for scraps. - TomG2Explorer8-track is the only way to listen to music. It will be around forever, just like $0.23/gallon gasoline.
- Interesting point of view on gas and stranded assets.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/gasoline-is-becoming-worthless-210636353.html - Yosemite_Sam1Explorer
fj12ryder wrote:
Yosemite Sam1 wrote:
No, I'm saying they're putting out what they think people need to hear, including politicians. Surely you don't believe everything a corporation tells you?fj12ryder wrote:
Yosemite Sam1 wrote:
Guess we'll find out in 2036 when they're still producing ICE powered vehicles.
And do you think GM, a 112 years old car company made a mistake in not producing anymore gas vehicle bay 2035?
Are you saying you know more about their plans and goals than they themselves?:B
Between you and GM, I'll believe them more than you.
And watching them, in fact, may buy their EV truck or plunk in some investment moolah on their stocks.
If they are lying, they will be in trouble with SEC and we'll get some of their money in class action suit. - fj12ryderExplorer III
Yosemite Sam1 wrote:
No, I'm saying they're putting out what they think people need to hear, including politicians. Surely you don't believe everything a corporation tells you?fj12ryder wrote:
Yosemite Sam1 wrote:
Guess we'll find out in 2036 when they're still producing ICE powered vehicles.
And do you think GM, a 112 years old car company made a mistake in not producing anymore gas vehicle bay 2035?
Are you saying you know more about their plans and goals than they themselves?:B Lantley wrote:
Honestly I'm not familiar with the Bolt. But my thought is the bolt is a no frills commuter car similar to a EV Leaf or a ICE Focus, Yaris, or Tercel.
What sets a Tesla apart is that it is not a basic commuter car. It has lots of performance and can compete with BMW 3 series or Mercedes C-class.
It has the handling and power to keep up with any car on the road.
I am referring to the base mode 40K Tesla. Now I don't know if that price is current and I know the Tesla is going through some updates, but my point is the base model is more than a basic car.
You can easily see based on the performance of the Tesla that the technology can be applied to all types of vehicles.
Tesla chews up the EV commuter car stigma and spits it out. Tesla technology lets the world know EV's are capable of performing as everyday cars not just as commuter or run about local shuttle cars.
Tesla has raised the bar for EV's. While the Bolt and Leaf were plodding along and sort of struggling to attract buyers to a niche commuter car market. Tesla has taken the world by storm. Tesla has shown that EV's are capable of being much more than a efficient little commuter car.
Tesla has raised the bar so high that GM has decided to quit making ICE cars.
Oh for sure. We drove a leaf for a little over four years. Great little commuter and cheaper than the Tesla. The bolt has about double the range of our old Leaf though and can be a once in a while road tripper. If one can get it at the right price its actually a nice little car. Simple, small and a big flat area when the back seats are down.
You are right on the Tesla price. Essentially around 38 grand for the standard range and 48 grand for the AWD 350 mile range version. Smokin fast and a fairly roomy four door sedan. It is a compact car length but is actually quite wide inside and outside. I'm glad the mirrors fold in or the sucker would barely fit in our garage.- LantleyNomadHonestly I'm not familiar with the Bolt. But my thought is the bolt is a no frills commuter car similar to a EV Leaf or a ICE Focus, Yaris, or Tercel.
What sets a Tesla apart is that it is not a basic commuter car. It has lots of performance and can compete with BMW 3 series or Mercedes C-class.
It has the handling and power to keep up with any car on the road.
I am referring to the base mode 40K Tesla. Now I don't know if that price is current and I know the Tesla is going through some updates, but my point is the base model is more than a basic car.
You can easily see based on the performance of the Tesla that the technology can be applied to all types of vehicles.
Tesla chews up the EV commuter car stigma and spits it out. Tesla technology lets the world know EV's are capable of performing as everyday cars not just as commuter or run about local shuttle cars.
Tesla has raised the bar for EV's. While the Bolt and Leaf were plodding along and sort of struggling to attract buyers to a niche commuter car market. Tesla has taken the world by storm. Tesla has shown that EV's are capable of being much more than a efficient little commuter car.
Tesla has raised the bar so high that GM has decided to quit making ICE cars. msmith1.wa wrote:
The this thread started regarding GM going all electric. Rather than test drive a Tesla go test drive a Bolt. My range for my 2018 Bolt is 238 miles. It's actual mileage is less in the winter bet more in the summer. The newer models have slightly higher range.
I agree it might be a while before long distance HD applications are practical, but commuter applications are ideal for an EV. I charge once a week. For long distance travel they are not ideal right now, because of charging time but it is doable. All the people making claims regarding the lack of charging location would probably be surprised at how many are out there. The longest trip we have taken was about 250 miles one way and was in the fall. Had to charge once each direction. While charging we went and got a meal, so it wasn't that inconvenient
I don't get why the Bolt is not a bigger seller. Its a great little car (and I'm not a fan of GM products) And the thing with a bolt is its great for people who need a commuter most of the time...but once in a while need to make a 300 or 400 mile trip. It has enough range and with the growing CCS network it doesn't make the day that much longer if you have to charge once. I think what scares people off is the MSRP. But from what I can tell people are able to negotiate the prices pretty good on Bolts. There are still 2019's on the lot here. Maybe the dealers here are just being stubborn.
JMHO- msmith1_waExplorerThe this thread started regarding GM going all electric. Rather than test drive a Tesla go test drive a Bolt. My range for my 2018 Bolt is 238 miles. It's actual mileage is less in the winter bet more in the summer. The newer models have slightly higher range.
I agree it might be a while before long distance HD applications are practical, but commuter applications are ideal for an EV. I charge once a week. For long distance travel they are not ideal right now, because of charging time but it is doable. All the people making claims regarding the lack of charging location would probably be surprised at how many are out there. The longest trip we have taken was about 250 miles one way and was in the fall. Had to charge once each direction. While charging we went and got a meal, so it wasn't that inconvenient
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