You have 13 yrs 11 mths left to buy a GM gas or dsl vehicle

Lantley wrote:
EV's will dominate simply because they are way more efficient with very few moving parts vs. the ICE.
Sure they will break down, and have issues but they are nothing like the ICE.
Drive a Tesla you will be amazingly awaken.
This whole EV thing is not something futuristic its happening now.
My Wal Mart now has charging stations. My library has charging stations.
Getting recharged will be something you do while shopping. If your taking a longer trip you will stop at a coffee shop he offers recharging.
While there is certainly infrastructure to be sorted out it's a mindset change at this point vs. a technology challenge

x2. I also think it's a testosterone mindset for some. Electric cars just aren't manly enough.

Yosemite Sam1 wrote:
European countries are into no-tailpipe goals some with more aggressive timelines than the others.

Seems everyone sees the future except the troglodytes among us.

Yeah, but there's a whooooooole bunch of 'em. LOL

time2roll wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:
EVs, ICE, whatever, they are all pretty much drive and forget. Haven't had any major engine work since....I think is was 30yrs ago I had a timing gear failure on a 1986 S-15. Sure, there are exceptions but I've also heard of failures with EV drivetrains. In either case they are very rare unless you do something stupid.

I had an '85 S10 V-6. 3 transmissions and 1 engine replaced before 80,000 miles.

obviously operator abuse.
bumpy

European countries are into no-tailpipe goals some with more aggressive timelines than the others.

Seems everyone sees the future except the troglodytes among us.

SPRey wrote:
What if--

What if all vehicles are electric (requiring the power grid to be charged) and all ICE cars outlawed.
What if all gas/diesel fuels are also outlawed (Paris Accord/Green New Deal/Great Reset Initiative/Davos 2021).
What if our electronic infrastructure is disrupted by the sun (solar storm) or from an attack from an enemy (China/Russia/North Korea/Iran)?

AFAIK, ICE may be restricted in some areas, not outlawed in general.
And not sure if you have seen it, but if the internet is down in a area, it is hard to buy fuel. And if no electricity, most pumps don't work.

time2roll wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:
EVs, ICE, whatever, they are all pretty much drive and forget. Haven't had any major engine work since....I think is was 30yrs ago I had a timing gear failure on a 1986 S-15. Sure, there are exceptions but I've also heard of failures with EV drivetrains. In either case they are very rare unless you do something stupid.

I had an '85 S10 V-6. 3 transmissions and 1 engine replaced before 80,000 miles.

I had a '88 5-speed manual. Wife was primary driver, but 4 drivers learned manual trans on that truck. 17 years, 200,000+ miles. Replaced clutch once, brakes and fuel pump 3 times. Bet my experience is as close to normal as yours.

EV's will dominate simply because they are way more efficient with very few moving parts vs. the ICE.
Sure they will break down, and have issues but they are nothing like the ICE.
Drive a Tesla you will be amazingly awaken.
This whole EV thing is not something futuristic its happening now.
My Wal Mart now has charging stations. My library has charging stations.
Getting recharged will be something you do while shopping. If your taking a longer trip you will stop at a coffee shop he offers recharging.
While there is certainly infrastructure to be sorted out it's a mindset change at this point vs. a technology challenge

valhalla360 wrote:
EVs, ICE, whatever, they are all pretty much drive and forget. Haven't had any major engine work since....I think is was 30yrs ago I had a timing gear failure on a 1986 S-15. Sure, there are exceptions but I've also heard of failures with EV drivetrains. In either case they are very rare unless you do something stupid.

I had an '85 S10 V-6. 3 transmissions and 1 engine replaced before 80,000 miles.

valhalla360 wrote:

Reisender wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

time2roll wrote:
People are going to love them. Could break the marginal dealers as the service revenue will taper off to about nothing.

More likely, the price of cars goes up as a result.

No dealers can make a go of it purely on new car sales. This isn't limited to "marginal" dealers.

Plus if you look at vehicle maintenance, actual major engine repair is pretty rare. Tire, Brakes, Suspension, Oil Changes are the bulk of the work. Other than possibly a brakes, those all will be present in EVs. Plus with EVs having a very heavy battery bank, suspensions will need to be beefed up and more expensive.

Oil changes will not be present on EV’s. We had our first EV for 5 years. We added washer fluid half a dozen times. Just before I sold it I put a new 12 volt battery in it because I knew it was coming due and I didn’t want the older couple to have any issues with it. If I remember correctly around 125 bucks. EV’s are drive and forget.

Sorry mistyped and left out the oil change...$25 once, twice a year on a $40,000 car...doesn't move the needle in terms of cost.

EVs, ICE, whatever, they are all pretty much drive and forget. Haven't had any major engine work since....I think is was 30yrs ago I had a timing gear failure on a 1986 S-15. Sure, there are exceptions but I've also heard of failures with EV drivetrains. In either case they are very rare unless you do something stupid.

Trudat.

bgum wrote:
The ICE is on its way out just like the horse was. There will be a few around but it will be few for special purposes.

EVs will remain niche vehicles for a long time. The question is how big with the niche be.
- A lot of delivery trucks run very predictable routes with limited miles and return to a storage yard every night (think UPS truck). These are in the early stages of change over.
- City buses (not long haul/tourist buses) these typically operate at low speeds where wind resistance doesn't eat into their range and you can fit massive battery banks under the floor. Add in regenerative braking and again, you have a predictable number of route miles and a home base they go to each night to charge.
- Long haul trucking, tour buses, etc..., they make money by eating up miles. Sitting for an hour or more to recharge doesn't cut it.

Similarly with cars, multicar families can afford to keep one car dedicated to commuting, so converting that to EV is easy when you have an ICE powered car ready for big family trips. That could get you up into 30-40% of cars sold.

Plug-In-Hybrids are a big missing piece of the puzzle. This allows you to plug in and get pretty much all of your commuter miles as battery/electric but when you have a long trip, it seamlessly kicks on the ICE and you really don't even have to think about it. This also addresses the battery supply problem that will kick in if we ever get over 1-2% of production as EVs.

goducks10 wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:
Very easy to put out press releases that won't be enforced until current management will be long gone and the new management can change them to meet real conditions.

GM was already planning this before the Biden adminn announced it.
https://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2020/nov/1119-electric-portfolio.html

They are kowtowing to the eco faithful. As long as the commitment is many years into the future, that's easy to do.

If the technology is half as good as some suggest, why didn't they set a 5yr horizon. As you say, this isn't a new thing for GM. They've been looking into it for years (remember the EV1) and most models get a major redesign on around a 5yr schedule, so why isn't it 2026?

Easy, they know it would be financial death to do more than talk about it and put out a model or two to show they are making an effort.

PS: I thought the Volt (Plug-In-Hybrid) was a great idea. In normal use, they are 100% battery electric for commuting but if they want to take a longer trip, there's no complications. Biggest issue was cost was too high when put up against comparable vehicles.