Diesel Fuel In Mexico - Update re Late Model Diesels

[Ed_White]

For almost 8 years I have been gathering data on, and reporting to this forum annually on, the behavior of diesel powered motorhomes, vans, and pickup trucks while in Mexico, where most of the diesel fuel is still LSD (Low Sulfur Diesel), up to 500 ppm. Unfortunately, ULSD (Ultr-Low-Sulfur-Diesel), 15 ppm, is available only in border cities/towns, the Northern Baja, Mexico City, and Monterrey.

In particular, my present database (November 2015) contains detailed information about the effects of Mexican LSD on the emissions systems of Ford Powerstrokes, Dodge RAMs, and GM Duramax systems for model years 2007.5 through 2015. Owners will be pleased to learn that none of these vehicles for model years 2007.5 through and including 2012 have any significant issues while using Mexican diesel. There may be occasional blue smoke during regeneration cycles, as sulfur compounds in the emissions system are burned off, and 2011/12 Duramax powered pickups may display “BAD DEF” and speed limitation warnings from time to time, but there has never been a confirmed situation of any of these vehicles becoming disabled or going in to “limp mode” due to sulfur in Mexican fuel. A regeneration cycle ALWAYS occurs and burns off the sulfur compounds before a serious speed limitation problem develops.

For 2013 through 2016 Duramax powered vehicles, management of the situation is required because these pickups can go in to limp mode unless regenerations are forced when “BAD DEF” messages appear. There are, however, 6 volunteers stationed across Mexico, including me, who can quickly provide information on how to force those regenerations and return the vehicles to normal operation. It is better to be prepared in advance though, so owners of 2013 and later Duramax pickup trucks should contact me at whitetmp@aol.com BEFORE entering Mexico.

Based on the data provided to me by owners, there are no recorded significant issues for 2013 and later Dodge RAM diesels while on Mexican fuel, although the engine light may come on and stay on for extended periods of time. Otherwise the vehicle operates normally, and the engine light extinguishes once the truck is back in the USA and has gone through a couple of tankfuls of ULSD.

Similarly, 2013 and 2014 Ford Powerstroke diesels have no reported issues, other than an occasional temporary engine light on. With respect to the 2015 Ford Powerstroke though, there COULD be a major issue for owners. The following story explains why:

In January of 2015 the owner of a 2015 Ford F350 Powerstroke joined a caravan tour into the Baja. As expected, his truck exhibited NO symptoms of temporary sulfur poisoning of the emissions system while he was towing his fifth wheel trailer. This is because towing a heavy trailer, or carrying a camper in the truck bed, provides sufficient load to keep exhaust gas temperatures elevated high enough to prevent the deposit of sulfur compounds in the emissions system. (This is also true for late model Dodge and GM diesel powered pickups).

In this specific case though, the owner left the caravan while in the Los Cabos area and traveled to La Paz, where he booked in to an RV park, unhooked his trailer, and began driving the truck with no tow load. Within a week or so, his truck went in to speed limitation, and eventually limp mode. He contacted the local Ford dealer in La Paz and discovered that there is NO ability to service late model Ford Powerstrokes in Mexico. He then contacted a dealership in the U.S., which canceled his warranty when it was discovered that he was in Mexico.

At that stage he researched the problem on line and contacted me, but it was too late to assist due to the truck being in limp mode. The only way to clear the sulfur compounds from the emissions system, and return the truck to normal operation, would be to run a Service Regeneration.

This owner then made the decision to import a delete kit in to Mexico, and within two weeks he had removed the entire factory emissions system and installed the delete kit, at which point he was able to get the truck running normally again.

The HUGE problem with this case, is that there is no way to know whether this single owner's experience is indicative of a larger 2015 Ford Powerstroke issue that will affect other owners driving on Mexican diesel, or whether his truck suffered a completely unrelated emissions system component failure that put his truck in to limp mode.

Erring on the side of caution I thought it would be wise to make a recommendation based on my extensive experience with similar problems on GM duramax post-2012 models. In conjunction with a different 2015 Ford Powerstroke owner, I have confirmed that the latest model Edge Tuner CT2, can force a regeneration on the 2015 Powerstroke. I am therefore recommending that any 2015 Powerstroke owner planning to drive into Mexicoand use Mexican diesel should purchase and carry an Edge CT2 Tuner - during the purchase, owners should confirm that the CT2 they are buying can initiate a regeneration cycle. (Please note that I do not work for Edge and I receive no compensation for this recommendation).

Once in Mexico, if or when the engine light or other DEF or emissions related message shows, a regeneration should be initiated, especially if there is warning of speed limitation. Following the regeneration, NOX emissions can be expected to return to normal range for long enough to cancel the emissions fault codes. If the Powerstroke behaves under these conditions the same as the GM Duramax post-2013, the engine light could remain on for up to 30 miles and/or three engine warm-ups, but will extinguish by itself.

Please note that I have insufficient information at this time to accurately describe the process because it is presently at the stage of a “Beta Test”. I would have preferred to witness the process myself on a 2015 Powerstroke in Mexico but that hasn't been possible to do so. For this reason, it would be of great assistance to me, and to owners of late model Powerstrokes, if owners could share their Mexico experiences this season with 2015 or later vehicles. There is every reason to believe, based on extensive observation of 2013 and later Duramax powered trucks, that the Edge CT2 will, via its regeneration function, prevent any major sulfur-in-fuel problem from developing, but I need further confirmation before becoming 100% confident.

Feel free to contact me if you have additional information, either via a private message, or directly to whitetmp@aol.com

[briansue]

Google: bad tank of diesel - one can even find stations taking responsibility for it.
That's why we have fuel filters.
And even those fail.

I did as suggested and found quite a few posts. The one I thought was most useful was . . .

http://www.diesel-fuels.com/bad-diesel-fuel.php

Where they explain in a lot of detail what can lead to bad fuel problems. So one tip I got from that is it is not a good idea to let your vehicle sit for long periods of time with fuel in the tank as the fuel can break down and degrade. I would seem that no matter what you put in the tank there is always a chance that various factors can cause the fuel in the tank to go bad as a lot of junk with scientific names will eventually build up in just about any diesel fuel tank. Which is why we always carry spare filters and know how to change them.

[briansue]

I have certainly heard of people getting bad tanks of fuel and water in their fuel but my personal experience has been never happened to me - and I have used a heck of a lot of cheap fuel over the years starting around 1979. I think it is one of those luck of the draw things there is no point in worrying about. Even the high priced fuel stops can have their problems. I guess I should knock on wood or something but my point is the odds seem to be that getting a bad tank is a very rare occurrence. We even use Bio-Diesel if they have it. If they would sell us off-road I would use that too. But I do change my fuel filters and I do always carry spares - so still not 100% confident.

[bighatnohorse]

Google: bad tank of diesel - one can even find stations taking responsibility for it.
That's why we have fuel filters.
And even those fail.

[Wm_Elliot]

Even off road diesel is now required to be ULSD - The only exception I know of is heating oil which soon also will be either Low or Ultra Low.
I too buy the cheapest diesel I can find and I've never gotten a bad tank of fuel.

[briansue]

I was a trucker in the US for almost 10 years. I always used the cheapest fuel I could find. Now we have been on the road all over North America for about 9.5 years. We search the internet for the cheapest fuel. We put on quite a few miles since we are almost always more or less on the road. Lots of tanks of fuel just about everywhere. I have never gotten a bad tank of fuel. Never a clogged filter. Never a problem. And since they got ULSD out there I cannot recall ever seeing a fuel stop anywhere in the US that had anything but ULSD. Don't know what that means.

[bighatnohorse]

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
This is a question. Please respect it as such.

. . . If the non ULSD facts are correct and an owner shows up at a dealership with a check engine light issue, what then?

You got a bad tank of fuel.
It happens. . .I've read comments about Supermarket diesel fuels being defective.
In fact, after a tank of fuel from a Safeway I had three injectors go bad.
Coincidence? Who's to say?

If the dealer drains the tank and has the fuel analyzed with results that it's NOT ULSD, then what? Blame the fuel supplier?

Good question. I'm sure that in fact that it must have happened many times over in the US but who can report the outcome?

[NRALIFR]

moisheh wrote:
There are no US stations legally selling non ULSD for on road vehicles.
Moisheh

Agree. I wish I could say "I've been everywhere, man" like Johnny Cash, but where I have been in the USA; if they sell Diesel for on-road use, it's ULSD.

:):)

[moisheh]

There are no US stations legally selling non ULSD for on road vehicles.
Moisheh

[MEXICOWANDERER]

This is a question. Please respect it as such.

There seems to be quite a number of gas stations and fuel depots in the USA where ULSD is not sold. I do not know the percentage and I do not know where except in the gulf states, and middle between the great lakes and the gulf of mexico regular diesel dispensers were reportedly "not rare".

I've not read the Ford or any other ULSD warranty or provisos. If the non ULSD facts are correct and an owner shows up at a dealership with a check engine light issue, what then?

I Googled the ULSD versus regular diesel issue and got nothing but conflicting accounts. So the USA may not be a ULSD Virgin either.

An owner may not use any or enough urea product which would cause problems.

None of the above involves Mexican diesel. So this leaves me with raised eyebrows. Again, this is a question, not a statement.

[briansue]

I will try to tell a story that might have nothing to do with anything. We have a 2006 diesel pusher Class A motorhome with a 400 Cummins engine. The way this particular vehicle was designed and built it has a tendency to overheat on hills. Many of these vehicles do. In the owners manual - once we get around to reading it - all component manufacturers - engine - transmission - chassis - say you must watch the temp gauge on hills and downshift to keep RPMs up around 2,000 and if temp keeps rising you need to slow down more and downshift more to keep RPMs up. So of course we did not know this at first and we had some overheating problems and had to go in to a dealer to try to find out what was going on. They hooked up their diagnostics computer to the connection points under the dash and they could read our history - when we overheated - for how long - what our RPMs were - what our temps were - etc. So how much can one of these diagnostic computers determine? And what does it tell them? If we do not drive the vehicle according to the method the manufacturers put down in writing and we destroy the engine because we did not drive it properly by downshifting and we continually cause it to overheat are we responsible for the damage and does the warranty cover damage we caused due to improper operation of the vehicle? Point here being that our experience was that the computer they used on our engine told them a lot about the history and operation of the engine. Is this true of other engines? How long does this history stay in the computer? What levels of improper operation of the equipment would be cause for voiding the warranty? How much would it cost us to get repairs done on equipment failure not covered by warranty due to improper operation? Questions should be asked and answered to determine true levels of risk before taking on those risks. What is the best source of information for us to determine risk levels and what we can do about them? Who is responsible if we do not know the risks? Who is responsible if we do our risk assessment based on information we get from the wrong sources? Fools rush in where wise men fear to tread.



.

[bighatnohorse]

Ed,
It's always to informative to read your posts regarding fuel in Mexico.
Personally, I have a 2015 Ford diesel and was seriously contemplating a trip to Baja this winter.
That trip will probably be curtailed to one tank until I hear further news.
Please keep up your best efforts.

[tepetapan]

briansue wrote:
A warranty can easily be voided if the operator does not comply with the terms spelled out in the warranty. Proper oil changes - filter changes - etc. If the warranty spells out improper fuel then that could be a sticking point. I have no idea. I have no knowledge. I would have to see the fine print in the warranty and know exactly what the wording means. I once had a car that spelled out if you put rust-proofing or undercoating on the car and the car rusted you voided the warranty - spelled out clearly - but the dealers still put the stuff on the cars. Facts are facts and without facts we know nothing. Speculation is not fact. No one but the vehicle manufacturer can provide those facts.

The whole thing comes down to proof. I personally have done at least a million USD worth of warranty work. From Diagnostics to installing the new parts to submitting the claim to the factory. For each job.
If you submit a part as faulty, the factory will test that part. If it is faulty you get paid. Otherwise the claim is rejected. If your warranty claim is written incorrectly, even if the part is faulty, the claim is denied. One mistake in writing the claim, resubmitting the paperwork could cause a 90 to 120 day delay in reimbursement. And you can't go back to the client and ask for money, you deemed it warrenty and they are not required to pay. I could give a class.
When a part, engine, whatever fails you can be expected to have some questions asked. The tech. may know you are not being totally upfront and honest, because that is his job, to know the equipment, engine, emissions parts. But it is not Judge Judy and he will accept your story as true. Even if he knows you are probably lying. He's getting paid regardless but doing what is expected by asking the questions.

[briansue]

A warranty can easily be voided if the operator does not comply with the terms spelled out in the warranty. Proper oil changes - filter changes - etc. If the warranty spells out improper fuel then that could be a sticking point. I have no idea. I have no knowledge. I would have to see the fine print in the warranty and know exactly what the wording means. I once had a car that spelled out if you put rust-proofing or undercoating on the car and the car rusted you voided the warranty - spelled out clearly - but the dealers still put the stuff on the cars. Facts are facts and without facts we know nothing. Speculation is not fact. No one but the vehicle manufacturer can provide those facts.

[moisheh]

tepetapan: They cannot void your whole warranty but the mfrs. can and do void engine warranties when owners modify emission systems or ECM's.

Moisheh