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Help with Lithium upgrade and inverter install. Lance 825

LaneW
Explorer
Explorer
Not sure if this is the right forum, but I am looking for help from DIYer on my upgrade.

I am developing a plan to upgrade my 2022 Lance 825 with lithium battery(s), an inverter and one more solar panel. Please shoot my plan full of holes, as needed. I REALLY want to get it right.

Summary: 2022 Lance 825, one 100w solar panel, GoPower PWM solar controller. 1 group 31 lead acid battery. 8 ga wire from my 2016 F350 with camper package.
Here is what I'm thinking:

Replace LA battery with lithium - thinking two SOK 100 AH right now - comments?
Replace ACR with a DC-DC controller - 30 amp? I have an 8 AWG wire from truck to camper.

Install 2000 w inverter. I only need to run the microwave, not AC, occasional small appliance. I don’t think I need an inverter/charger since my Progressive Dynamics has a lithium setting. Is that so? I am considering the Renogy 2000 watt inverter.

I will need to install an automatic transfer switch, unless I can find an inverter with one built in. The only ones I have found with a built in switch are inverter/chargers. (I also need help figuring out how to wire the AC from shore power to inverter and back to distribution panel). Either that or I just run a stand-along ac circuit to the microwave outlet.

Maybe add one solar panel - 100 watt or a little more - looking for a no drill option.

I will install a Renogy combination MPPT/DC-DC charger and place it where Lance put the ACR, in place of the ACR. Thinking 30 amp. I have only an 8 awg wire from truck battery to camper now. I think I need to run a 4awg from my truck battery (200 amp alternator) to the go where the ACR is now in the camper and cant figure out how/where to get the wire into the camper and routed to the right place. Currently the Lance plug and cable has only an 8 awg incoming, but somewhere it changes to a 4 awg inside, because I see a 4 awg connected to the battery side of the ACR. Any help?

What am I missing? What am I doing wrong?
12 REPLIES 12

theoldwizard1
Explorer
Explorer
LaneW wrote:

I will need to install an automatic transfer switch, unless I can find an inverter with one built in. The only ones I have found with a built in switch are inverter/chargers. (I also need help figuring out how to wire the AC from shore power to inverter and back to distribution panel). Either that or I just run a stand-along ac circuit to the microwave outlet.

Make you life easier ! Get rid of your current converter and buy a inverter/charger/automatic transfer switch.

deltabravo
Nomad
Nomad
LaneW wrote:
DeltaBravo. Thank you! (You live in Spokane? I am in Hayden)


Yes, sort of. I'm technically in the Mead area, just south of Green Bluff.
2009 Silverado 3500HD Dually, D/A, CCLB 4x4 (bought new 8/30/09)
2018 Arctic Fox 992 with an Onan 2500i "quiet" model generator

Cptnvideo
Nomad
Nomad
You might be over-thinking things. Likely the biggest amp draw from your 2000 watt inverter will be when you run the microwave and that would only be for a few minutes.
If you're planning on running close to the max on your inverter, you should probably go with a pair of the 206 ah SOKs. 200 ah won't last very long with the inverter running at full bore.
BTW, I have 5 of the 206ah SOKs. $1030 from Amazon or direct from SOK.
Bill & Linda, 2019 Ram Laramie 3500 dually 4x4 diesel, Hensley BD5 hitch, 2022 Grand Design Solitude 378MBS, 1600 watts solar, Victron 150/100 MPPT controller, GoPower 3kw inverter/charger, 5 SOK 206AH LFP batteries for 1030 ah

LaneW
Explorer
Explorer
ewarnerusa wrote:
LaneW wrote:
... I was told by some that the 206 ah SOK will not produce 1000 amps continuous power, needed for the inverter, and that two 100s will. I have had some tell me this is true, other say not. I dont know for sure and would love to have a definitive answer!


maybe misplaced a zero? The 100AH Li batteries that I have looked at have a battery monitoring system that limits them to 100 A max continuous output. 2 in parallel would give you 200 A. 200A x 10V (reduced from 12V for inversion efficiency losses) = 2000 watts on the AC side. So should pair fine with your 2000 watt rated inverter plan and hopefully do OK for starting up your microwave.


Yes, definitely added a zero accidentally! Renogy has a 200 ah batt that is rated for 200 a continuous, but it wont find my small space. I would rather use the SOK 206 ah but will prob have to go with two of their 100 ah

ewarnerusa
Nomad
Nomad
LaneW wrote:
... I was told by some that the 206 ah SOK will not produce 1000 amps continuous power, needed for the inverter, and that two 100s will. I have had some tell me this is true, other say not. I dont know for sure and would love to have a definitive answer!


maybe misplaced a zero? The 100AH Li batteries that I have looked at have a battery monitoring system that limits them to 100 A max continuous output. 2 in parallel would give you 200 A. 200A x 10V (reduced from 12V for inversion efficiency losses) = 2000 watts on the AC side. So should pair fine with your 2000 watt rated inverter plan and hopefully do OK for starting up your microwave.
Aspen Trail 2710BH | 470 watts of solar | 2x 6V GC batteries | 100% LED lighting | 1500W PSW inverter | MicroAir on air con | Yamaha 2400 gen

LaneW
Explorer
Explorer
Cptnvideo wrote:
Why not add one 206 ah SOK battery instead of 2 100s? Cost would be less plus more room for expansion. My factory provided converter is unplugged because I have an inverter/charger, which is much more convenient - also eliminates the need for a transfer switch.


That was my original plan! But I was told by some that the 206 ah SOK will not produce 1000 amps continuous power, needed for the inverter, and that two 100s will. I have had some tell me this is true, other say not. I dont know for sure and would love to have a definitive answer!

LaneW
Explorer
Explorer
DeltaBravo. Thanks for the vid links. I have a bunch of watching to do and will check back when I get through them. Thank you! (You live in Spokane? I am in Hayden)

LaneW
Explorer
Explorer
StirCrazy. Yes I am replacing the PWM with a MPPT. Actually the Renogy combined MPPT/DC-DC charger. I just have to figure how to get a much larger wire to the DC-DC from my truck battery.

For solar, yes I am considering adding a panel and yes I have the cargo racks that I can mount on if I dont my screw into the roof. But I do have very little real estate up there for panels.

Cptnvideo
Nomad
Nomad
Why not add one 206 ah SOK battery instead of 2 100s? Cost would be less plus more room for expansion. My factory provided converter is unplugged because I have an inverter/charger, which is much more convenient - also eliminates the need for a transfer switch.
Bill & Linda, 2019 Ram Laramie 3500 dually 4x4 diesel, Hensley BD5 hitch, 2022 Grand Design Solitude 378MBS, 1600 watts solar, Victron 150/100 MPPT controller, GoPower 3kw inverter/charger, 5 SOK 206AH LFP batteries for 1030 ah

ewarnerusa
Nomad
Nomad
LaneW wrote:
Not sure if this is the right forum, but I am looking for help from DIYer on my upgrade.

I am developing a plan to upgrade my 2022 Lance 825 with lithium battery(s), an inverter and one more solar panel. Please shoot my plan full of holes, as needed. I REALLY want to get it right...


My opinion on the stuff I know >0 about:
Replace LA battery with lithium - thinking two SOK 100 AH right now - comments? - That is a big expensive upgrade, but 200AH of lithium battery sounds like a sweet boondocking setup. I would even say overkill if you've been comfortably dealing with a single LA battery; however, in order to run the microwave off of inverted DC then you'll need at least this much.

Install 2000 w inverter. I only need to run the microwave, not AC, occasional small appliance. I don’t think I need an inverter/charger since my Progressive Dynamics has a lithium setting. Is that so? I am considering the Renogy 2000 watt inverter. - As mentioned, I think you're at the bare minimum for wanting to run the microwave which maybe needs >1500 watts continuous load to run. But good to go for other stuff. Install the inverter as close as possible to the batteries using big fat cables. I agree about not needing an inverter/charger, but you've already set the budget very high by starting with 2x 100AH lithium batteries so why not spend more on an inverter/charger which can really add convenience to this setup?

I will need to install an automatic transfer switch, unless I can find an inverter with one built in. The only ones I have found with a built in switch are inverter/chargers. (I also need help figuring out how to wire the AC from shore power to inverter and back to distribution panel). Either that or I just run a stand-along ac circuit to the microwave outlet. - See my previous comment, an inverter/charger solves this issue. As for what is in my opinion the easiest way to feed your AC system with an inverter, just plug your shore power cord into the inverter outlet. You'll need to be able to disable your converter when you do this, my converter is on its own dedicated AC breaker that I switch off when doing this. Fridge and water heater set to propane. Definitely not as slick as using a transfer switch and it requires that you dig out the shore power cord. But it's easy and also foolproof since you can't accidentally backfeed anything.

Maybe add one solar panel - 100 watt or a little more - looking for a no drill option. - You'll want more than 200 watts total with 200AH of battery, assuming you want your solar to be a meaningful source of charge. Consider 300-400 watts. Drill away, it is the best way to attach them securely.

I will install a Renogy combination MPPT/DC-DC charger and place it where Lance put the ACR, in place of the ACR. Thinking 30 amp. I have only an 8 awg wire from truck battery to camper now. I think I need to run a 4awg from my truck battery (200 amp alternator) to the go where the ACR is now in the camper and cant figure out how/where to get the wire into the camper and routed to the right place. Currently the Lance plug and cable has only an 8 awg incoming, but somewhere it changes to a 4 awg inside, because I see a 4 awg connected to the battery side of the ACR. Any help? - I've heard that measures must be taken to avoid burning out an alternator when using it to charge Li batteries (measures like you've just described), and also that this is overthinking it because the OEM wiring will never allow enough current to flow through it such that it strains the alternator. I am also not familiar with ACR, not a thing in my TT.
Aspen Trail 2710BH | 470 watts of solar | 2x 6V GC batteries | 100% LED lighting | 1500W PSW inverter | MicroAir on air con | Yamaha 2400 gen

deltabravo
Nomad
Nomad
My project might give you some ideas:

Build your own battery cables

Inverter Install part 1

Inverter Install part 2

Part 3

Part 4
2009 Silverado 3500HD Dually, D/A, CCLB 4x4 (bought new 8/30/09)
2018 Arctic Fox 992 with an Onan 2500i "quiet" model generator

StirCrazy
Navigator
Navigator
up top you talk about using a PWM solar controler and at the bottom you talk about a MPPT controler.. use a MPPT controler if you can, the only thing I would do is more solar power, by either a larger panel (24V panel) or 2 or 3 100watt panels in series, I try to get between 3 to 400 watts on a low power use aplication so my batteries recover faster if I have a few bad solar days.

do you have the storage rail around the back of the camper. you could put brackets to that and mount the panels above the vents and such if you do.

Steve
2014 F350 6.7 Platinum
2016 Cougar 330RBK
1991 Slumberqueen WS100