Small 5th wheel pin weight?

marquette wrote:
sue-t Love that 17 footer! We have looked all over the web trying to find a 17-19 ft 5'er and the only ones we find are in the mountain country. Oregon, Colorado and BC. Hence the questions about a 22 ft because they are really common and cheap. Since your pin weight shifts from 15-20% as you load the trailer is most of your cargo in the front of the trailer? The wheels couldn't get any more centered than on your trailer.

On that fifth wheel, most of my packed goods were over the axles or behind the axles. The toilet was back of the axles too. We travelled with a full water tank though.

Here's the floor plan:

If I had a 150 series truck with a bigger engine, not a small 6, I would get the 22 footer with the idea that if the 150 wasn't strong or big enough there are lots of 250 series trucks out there. Realize that you won't be traveling 70 or 75 mph but might have to be satisfied with 60-65 at the top end.

OP,

Get a copy of this month's Trailer Life. Special section on lightweights.

"Huh? Sticker on my 2500HD says total for passengers and cargo shall not exceed 3267 I don't doubt that your truck can handle that light fw but 3520 lbs?
Sorry I saw bfl13 on here so much, I forgot who was the OP "

Can't answer without further use of my name. I did not hijack this thread. I was answering the OP.

Ok, my truck has 3520 because it is a gas 6.0/410 with the lighter 4 speed transmission that came with that gas engine, and it is 2wd.

The same truck with 4wd can only carry about 400 lbs less, and the Diesel version can hardly carry anything because it has a 700 lb more heavy engine and an Allison tranny that weighs about 400 lbs more than the 4-speed. So a 2003 4wd Diesel same truck, would have maybe 3520 - (400 + 400 + 700) = 2020 and with 750 people that leaves 1270 Cargo and with a 250 lb hitch, a pin wt of 1020 lb (loaded!) 5er which is just a joke. :(

Which is why all those Diesel 2500HDs back then were over-loaded with a 5er, and why GM since then, upped the specs later on to "get with the program"

The newer Chevs have different specifications where they can both pull more and carry more, but I doubt they have any change in the difference in what a gas can carry vs a Diesel, and what a Diesel can pull vs a gas. 4wd costs you weight no matter what the engine and tranny choice.

If you want to talk trucks, go to the "tow vehicle" forum.

BFL13 wrote:

kaydeejay wrote:

BFL13 wrote:
"Payload" is not the same as "Cargo" with Chevs, at least in 2003.

"Cargo" is with full fuel but maybe not "Payload". My truck GVWR is 9,200 and the CWR and ("T" on the label) is 2,770 (what is allowed in the box) It is a five pax for 150 each for 750 so "Payload" is 750 + 2770 = 3,520 which would be on the stickers that came out a few years later for "cargo and passengers" limit.

However the 2003 brochure says its "Payload" is 3,643.

So maybe the 3643-3520 = 123 is gasoline, but 128 litres must weigh at least twice that.

So it is not altogether clear.

Is that five passengers PLUS driver, or 5 occupants total? If the latter, there is the rest of your fuel.
Also, that "brochure" weight is a typical weight for 2500HDs, not necessarily the exact number for your truck.

Ok, now clear.

"Payload" is everything including fuel, people, and cargo or any other stuff added to the truck from new.

"Total Reserve Capacity" is the difference between your GVWR and the weight of the truck "with full fuel and passengers" (I think that term "passengers" is meant to include the driver in that quote)

"Cargo Weight Rating" (also your truck-camper limit) is the maximum load your truck can carry "but doesn't include the weight of the people inside" --figure on 150lbs each.

"Hitch loads" -subtract these from your cargo weight rating (as part of your cargo)

Our truck does not have the sticker that came out around 2005 which says "people and cargo not to exceed xxx", but it does say the CWR is 2770 and that is also the T number on the sticker it does have, where T is the Total Reserve Capacity, which is "with full fuel" and people.

So with full fuel we can carry 2770 plus 750 of people or 3520 which is what would be on the new type of sticker.

So that is where it comes out that the sticker on newer vehicles giving max wt allowed is with a full gas tank already counted in.

The trick is, that figure is not your "payload" Payload is the difference between the empty truck as built and its GVWR.

Ford and Dodge no doubt speak a different language, so "payload" may mean something else in their languages.

Huh? Sticker on my 2500HD says total for passengers and cargo shall not exceed 3267 I don't doubt that your truck can handle that light fw but 3520 lbs?
Sorry I saw bfl13 on here so much, I forgot who was the OP

marquette wrote:
I looked at a 22 ft 2005 Sun Valley 5th wheel today with a dry weight of 3800 lbs. The dealer of course told me it is 1/2 ton tow-able. I quick did the math and said with a 700-900 pin weight it would be close to maxing out a 1/2 ton cargo capacity by the time you added passengers and fuel to the truck. His answer was that short fifth wheels with tandem wheels have proportionately less pin weight than a larger fifth wheel. Any one know if that is true?

Over a span of 14+ years, I've had lite 21ft, 25ft and 27 ft fivers that I pulled with a 1500 series Silverado. That last unit had a dry weight of 5000 lbs, pin weight of 950 lbs and a GVWR of 6550 lbs. Also had a 40 gal. aux tank in the truck. Loaded, I was over the truck's 6200 lb GVWR, but under the rear GAWR and GCWR. Pulled these fivers all over the western US w/o issues. Seems like today there are 1/2 ton trucks more capable and higher rated than that 2000 Silverado with the 5.3L and 4 speed auto and easily capable of handling a 22 ft, 10 year old fiver.

.....

kaydeejay wrote:

BFL13 wrote:
"Payload" is not the same as "Cargo" with Chevs, at least in 2003.

"Cargo" is with full fuel but maybe not "Payload". My truck GVWR is 9,200 and the CWR and ("T" on the label) is 2,770 (what is allowed in the box) It is a five pax for 150 each for 750 so "Payload" is 750 + 2770 = 3,520 which would be on the stickers that came out a few years later for "cargo and passengers" limit.

However the 2003 brochure says its "Payload" is 3,643.

So maybe the 3643-3520 = 123 is gasoline, but 128 litres must weigh at least twice that.

So it is not altogether clear.

Is that five passengers PLUS driver, or 5 occupants total? If the latter, there is the rest of your fuel.
Also, that "brochure" weight is a typical weight for 2500HDs, not necessarily the exact number for your truck.

Ok, now clear.

"Payload" is everything including fuel, people, and cargo or any other stuff added to the truck from new.

"Total Reserve Capacity" is the difference between your GVWR and the weight of the truck "with full fuel and passengers" (I think that term "passengers" is meant to include the driver in that quote)

"Cargo Weight Rating" (also your truck-camper limit) is the maximum load your truck can carry "but doesn't include the weight of the people inside" --figure on 150lbs each.

"Hitch loads" -subtract these from your cargo weight rating (as part of your cargo)

Our truck does not have the sticker that came out around 2005 which says "people and cargo not to exceed xxx", but it does say the CWR is 2770 and that is also the T number on the sticker it does have, where T is the Total Reserve Capacity, which is "with full fuel" and people.

So with full fuel we can carry 2770 plus 750 of people or 3520 which is what would be on the new type of sticker.

So that is where it comes out that the sticker on newer vehicles giving max wt allowed is with a full gas tank already counted in.

The trick is, that figure is not your "payload" Payload is the difference between the empty truck as built and its GVWR.

Ford and Dodge no doubt speak a different language, so "payload" may mean something else in their languages.

5ers are nothing more than a giant tetertotter. The axels are the folcrum. By moving the axels, the engineer can make the pinweight as much as half the weight of the trailer or as little as a negative number nearly the weight of the trailer. If the pinweight is ever a negative number, the TV has no control. A 50 lb person on a tetertotter, with a 200 lb person on the other end, has no control. The engineer's task is to put enough pinweight on the TV to assure control without overloading it.

That picture of the little fw reminds me of my 20' Jayco. The Ford salesman told me that the 1997 F-150 with the 6 cylinder and tow package would handle the trailer fine. We got up to Black mountain SP in Georgia and there was this long hill inside the cg. We got halfway up the hill and stopped. I had the family get out (including mother-in-law) and backed down the hill, got a running start and made it up the hill. They were not happy campers.
Getting back to your question. I can see where a shorter fw would tend to put less weight on your pin, unless you were putting all the weight in the bedroom. I was looking at nada for your model and the 19' was about 3700 lbs. The 23' was 4200 lbs. I didn't se a 22' model listed.