ST vs LT Tires -- I'm confused

[The_Painting_Te]

I've moved up from a TT to a 5'er. Years ago I replaced the TT tires with Maxxis ST based on just about universal recommendations. Had them for 3 yrs without a single problem of any type. Now I've got a 5'er and want to get rid of the original Duros. I had planned on replacing them with Maxxis ST again, but I see a lot of people on this site recommending LT tires (usually without any brand mentioned). Couple of questions ... Any problems with appropriate Maxxis on a 5'er? Any problems with putting LT's on a 5'er rather than ST's? What LT brands are not made in China? Are there any that are specifically manufactured in the USA? TIA ... Camp on!

[Francesca_Knowl]

Allworth wrote:
Eagle,

Does the manufacturer guarantee that something dreadfull will happen if you use them on a trailer??

While not the recommended use; I don't see anything prohibiting it.

Funny you should ask about downsides/possible consequences- below please find today's update on one member's current struggle to get BF Goodrich (AKA Michelin) to honor warranty on the Commercial T/A's he put on his fiver. Link to whole thread

Charlie D. wrote:
I sent an email to BFG 10 days ago. They responded after a week with a case #. Said to take the tire to a BFG dealer. Took it in today and the dealer said he had a failure like that on his truck-didn't ask the tire brand-and that my tire was a defect. Told me to call BFG and give them his # and he would confirm that the tire was defective. He commented that the tire came apart where it would normally be seamed at the layers and that the straight side to side cut was unusual.

Called BFG and had a recorded conversation with Alvin. He immediately asked me the year of my vehicle and when I said 5th wheel he quickly began to lecture me on the BFG not being a ST tire and that I had misapplied the tire by mounting on my 5th wheel. He explained all the advantages of ST tires on trailers and yes he was aware of the horror stories of damages they cause. I had told him that I had removed them from a previous 5th wheel because I refused to have a trailer with ST tires. He got part of that story wrong when he repeated it because he said I took them off a truck. After I corrected him he said by taking a tire off the original vehicle and putting them on another I automatically voided the warranty.

He then began to tell me that the ST tire-and he said BFG doesn't make them-are rated with a higher capacity that LT tires. DUH!!!I told him that I was aware of that and my axles are 5200 # and I have weigh tickets and that the BFG tires were well within the limits of their capacity. He then began another explanation of the legal ramifications of having LT tires on trailers and that from a legal standpoint BFG was declining any assistance of the failed tire.

We continued the discussion of ST vs. LT and said he has had a number of calls recently from customers about failures of the Commercial T/A's. I told him that some RV manufacturers are installing LT tires on RV's and he said that many of the people calling in have said the same thing.

To sum things up:
I voided warranty of the tires when I put them on a trailer.
I voided warranty of the tires when I moved them from one vehicle to another.
BFG from a legal standpoint will not honor any warranty for LT tires on anything other than the original installation of a light duty truck.

I know there are those on this forum who say they have had damage and tire assistance from tire manufacturers including BFG.

My first 5er had GY Marathons made in China. One failure and I went to the highly rated, at that time, Denman ST. One year later 2 failures. I then purchased 5 new BFG and went from 15 to 16". These tires have been exceptional until the failure with 2 trips to Arizona, 1 to California, Grand Canyon and Montana and Wyoming and to Delaware.

I guess what disappoints me is that I tried to do the right thing. Good tires, TPMS, reduced speed, proper inflation, balancing and anal about checking every 100 miles. Tires fail but one would expect some help when they are defective.

[FastEagle]

Allworth wrote:
Eagle,

Does the manufacturer guarantee that something dreadfull will happen if you use them on a trailer??

While not the recommended use; I don't see anything prohibiting it.

That question would be better directed at one of those tire manufacturers. I know what Continental will say but when I quote it it's maybe worth a penny in this forum. When they say it just maybe someone will get a nickel's worth.

FastEagle

[Allworth]

Eagle,

Does the manufacturer guarantee that something dreadfull will happen if you use them on a trailer??

While not the recommended use; I don't see anything prohibiting it.

[laknox]

gmw photos wrote:

laknox wrote:


FYI, my FW has a GVW of 11,300 lbs, and has a fairly light pin wt. For D-range tires, I'm nearly at the limit of their capacity. I ended up going with E-range Carlisles this last time because I couldn't wait for Discount to ship in the Maxxis I really wanted. So now, tell me how many E-range 15" tires you can find, ST =or= LT? NONE in LT and very, very few in ST. FWIW, even Maxxis are simply up-rated D-range LT-type tires, IMO. With the prevalence of "light" or "1/2 ton" TTs and FWs these days, all running 15" wheels, you'd think even ONE tire company would grab the bull by the horns and make a =good= ST. We certainly know the bean counters who never leave their offices at the RV manufacturers won't demand it.

Lyle

Do you have room for 16" tires ? If so, there is the easy answer. Lots of load range E in 16"

Easy answer for you. You don't have to deal with my DW to =pay= for 'em. 🙂 Frankly, had I been much more knowledgeable when we bought this FW, I'd've bit the bullet and changed them out after the first set of tires went bad. 20/20, y'know? Next FW will have basic steel rims and I'll make sure there's room in the wells to go to 16's after the first set goes bad. Either that, or I'll tell the dealer to do the swap before I even do the PDI.

Lyle

[laknox]

Me Again wrote:

laknox wrote:


FYI, my FW has a GVW of 11,300 lbs, and has a fairly light pin wt. For D-range tires, I'm nearly at the limit of their capacity. I ended up going with E-range Carlisles this last time because I couldn't wait for Discount to ship in the Maxxis I really wanted. So now, tell me how many E-range 15" tires you can find, ST =or= LT? NONE in LT and very, very few in ST. FWIW, even Maxxis are simply up-rated D-range LT-type tires, IMO. With the prevalence of "light" or "1/2 ton" TTs and FWs these days, all running 15" wheels, you'd think even ONE tire company would grab the bull by the horns and make a =good= ST. We certainly know the bean counters who never leave their offices at the RV manufacturers won't demand it.

Lyle

That is strange NADA must have their data all screwed up!

http://www.nadaguides.com/rvs/2004/Used/Komfort

And another

http://66.111.103.196/Navigation.do?product=RVBB&yearId=2004&year=2004&manufacturerId=1467&manufactu...

Found this:

"Lyle

Here's my data:

2004 Komfort 25FSG
UVW - 6,679 lbs
dry pin - 1,113 lbs
dry ratio - 16.66%
GVW - 11,300 lbs per the sticker
calculated pin wt @ 16.66% and full GVW - 1,882 lbs"
11300-1882=9418 on the axles fully loaded. Might be kind of hard to add that much stuff to a 29'er to get it up to GVWR with 4621 CC.

So what is the actual scaled weight on your axles?

If you are running the Carlisle at 65 lbs inflation on your D rated wheels, then you have 2540 pounds capacity. The two LT's that I noted have 2450 capacity. I think I would take one of those over a ST any day.

Chris

So? My FW came with 80 psi-rated aluminum wheels, mounted with E-rated Carlisles, now. Given that the stickered D-rated tires are already cheap tires uprated, why take a chance? I went with E-rated tires as soon as the first set went belly up. Given my weights, I could easily run E-rated LT's if I wanted to blow a bunch of cash on 16" rims, and =still= be under sidewall ratings for the by-the-bookers.

Lyle

[gmw_photos]

laknox wrote:


FYI, my FW has a GVW of 11,300 lbs, and has a fairly light pin wt. For D-range tires, I'm nearly at the limit of their capacity. I ended up going with E-range Carlisles this last time because I couldn't wait for Discount to ship in the Maxxis I really wanted. So now, tell me how many E-range 15" tires you can find, ST =or= LT? NONE in LT and very, very few in ST. FWIW, even Maxxis are simply up-rated D-range LT-type tires, IMO. With the prevalence of "light" or "1/2 ton" TTs and FWs these days, all running 15" wheels, you'd think even ONE tire company would grab the bull by the horns and make a =good= ST. We certainly know the bean counters who never leave their offices at the RV manufacturers won't demand it.

Lyle

Do you have room for 16" tires ? If so, there is the easy answer. Lots of load range E in 16"

[Me_Again]

FastEagle wrote:
The Cargo G26 is a summer tire designed for such vehicles as the Isuzu Grafter, Renault Traffic and the Ford Transit. I cannot find a recommendation from it’s manufacturer for trailer service.

FastEagle

So big deal. All LT tires are all position tires. If they work better than 15" ST tires people will use them over blow outs and trailer damage from STs. Chris

[FastEagle]

laknox:

Tires are fitted to RV trailers according to their certified GAWR. They are the only numbers you have to worry about unless your trailer is overweight (exceeding the GAWRs). A 12% to 15% tire load capacity reserve above GAWR is a really nice thing to have when replacing RV trailer tires.

The certification label/tire placard for your trailer is supposed to be on the LH forward external portion of the trailer - unobstructed.

With RV trailers it's best to match or exceed the load capacity of the Original Equipment tires listed on the certification label. Even Michelin is on that bandwagon. Here is their warning.

" To insure correct air pressure and vehicle load , refer to the vehicle owner's manual or tire information placard on the vehicle."

FastEagle

[Me_Again]

laknox wrote:


FYI, my FW has a GVW of 11,300 lbs, and has a fairly light pin wt. For D-range tires, I'm nearly at the limit of their capacity. I ended up going with E-range Carlisles this last time because I couldn't wait for Discount to ship in the Maxxis I really wanted. So now, tell me how many E-range 15" tires you can find, ST =or= LT? NONE in LT and very, very few in ST. FWIW, even Maxxis are simply up-rated D-range LT-type tires, IMO. With the prevalence of "light" or "1/2 ton" TTs and FWs these days, all running 15" wheels, you'd think even ONE tire company would grab the bull by the horns and make a =good= ST. We certainly know the bean counters who never leave their offices at the RV manufacturers won't demand it.

Lyle

That is strange NADA must have their data all screwed up!

http://www.nadaguides.com/rvs/2004/Used/Komfort

And another

http://66.111.103.196/Navigation.do?product=RVBB&yearId=2004&year=2004&manufacturerId=1467&manufactu...

Found this:

"Lyle

Here's my data:

2004 Komfort 25FSG
UVW - 6,679 lbs
dry pin - 1,113 lbs
dry ratio - 16.66%
GVW - 11,300 lbs per the sticker
calculated pin wt @ 16.66% and full GVW - 1,882 lbs"
11300-1882=9418 on the axles fully loaded. Might be kind of hard to add that much stuff to a 29'er to get it up to GVWR with 4621 CC.

So what is the actual scaled weight on your axles?

If you are running the Carlisle at 65 lbs inflation on your D rated wheels, then you have 2540 pounds capacity. The two LT's that I noted have 2450 capacity. I think I would take one of those over a ST any day.

Chris

[FastEagle]

The Cargo G26 is a summer tire designed for such vehicles as the Isuzu Grafter, Renault Traffic and the Ford Transit. I cannot find a recommendation from it’s manufacturer for trailer service.

FastEagle

[PartyMarty]

There is no incentive for a tire company to make a good ST .
ST tires are a price item .
That is why the G26 and the equivalent Continental Vanco 2 in the size of 225 /70 R 15 load range D are currently the heaviest tires available in 15 inch .
The maxxis E rated ST is about 4 pounds lighter than the LT Vanco 2 and Goodyear G26
That is also why there are not dozens of competitors to the G26 and Vanco 2 .
Most people are shopping price .

[laknox]

Me Again wrote:

laknox wrote:

Lowsuv wrote:
Many of the maxxis supporters are of the " me too " and " X 2 " crowd .
None of them supplies exactly what it is they like about Maxxis .
This particular forum is the only place I have found where Maxxis is an exalted brand .
If you look at the posts by huntindog , sprinklerman , tireman9 , partymarty , gmwphotos , and LowSuv you will discover that each of them goes further into the details of which tires are better and why .
There are some posters that fail to recognize that ST tires are "uprated " on the sidewall capacity relative to the Tougher LT tire standard .
As most of the experienced posters have pointed out the ST standard is a way for the trailer manufacturers to install a cheaper tire on their trailers .
ST tires are designed for trailers that sit 95 % of the time.
LT tires are designed for trucks that move 95 % of the time .
Search for partymarty's post comparing goodyear tires ST versus LT in a 235 X 16 size by clicking on his Icon under view posts .
Goodyear sells the ST tire for 88 % of the price , 88 % of the weight of the same size LT tire yet the ST tire is placarded for 3500# and the ST tire is placarded for 112% of the weight capacity .
The ST tire is definitely Less tire than the LT tire .
But some folks such as Francesca , are not grasping the fact that an ST tire is less tire than the same size LT tire ..

The problem that those of us with 15" wheels face, is finding the "best of the worst". I've become educated by reading here, and other fora, about the tire situation, and have experienced 8 tire failures in 12 years, one semi-catastropic and 7 caught before they failed while traveling. That's a 100% failure rate. I'm now on my 3rd set of tires. Were there a quality E-range LT in 15", they couldn't make them fast enough to supply the demand...and the hell with what the sidewall says. I have upgraded from the placarded D-range to E-range after my first set, check them often, and keep to 65, or less, so I know I'm not abusing my tires. They're just******from the get-go.

Lyle

Why are you making this so hard.

LT225/70R15 tires Goodyear Cargo G 26 and Continental Vanco both are rated at 2450 # weight.

Four of these are good for 9800 pounds. I am sure that your trailer GVWR is well below that number, then you subtract the pin weight and you would be luck to see 7K on the axles. C, D, D has little to do with it.

Chris

FYI, my FW has a GVW of 11,300 lbs, and has a fairly light pin wt. For D-range tires, I'm nearly at the limit of their capacity. I ended up going with E-range Carlisles this last time because I couldn't wait for Discount to ship in the Maxxis I really wanted. So now, tell me how many E-range 15" tires you can find, ST =or= LT? NONE in LT and very, very few in ST. FWIW, even Maxxis are simply up-rated D-range LT-type tires, IMO. With the prevalence of "light" or "1/2 ton" TTs and FWs these days, all running 15" wheels, you'd think even ONE tire company would grab the bull by the horns and make a =good= ST. We certainly know the bean counters who never leave their offices at the RV manufacturers won't demand it.

Lyle

[ol_Bombero-JC]

.
.
An FYI.... sad tire saga posted on the *General RVing Issues* forum that fits right in for this thread's topic......

"Towmax Tires - Another One Bites The Dust" - With pics.

Part of his trailer and his wallet bit the dust also..:(

~

[Me_Again]

laknox wrote:

Lowsuv wrote:
Many of the maxxis supporters are of the " me too " and " X 2 " crowd .
None of them supplies exactly what it is they like about Maxxis .
This particular forum is the only place I have found where Maxxis is an exalted brand .
If you look at the posts by huntindog , sprinklerman , tireman9 , partymarty , gmwphotos , and LowSuv you will discover that each of them goes further into the details of which tires are better and why .
There are some posters that fail to recognize that ST tires are "uprated " on the sidewall capacity relative to the Tougher LT tire standard .
As most of the experienced posters have pointed out the ST standard is a way for the trailer manufacturers to install a cheaper tire on their trailers .
ST tires are designed for trailers that sit 95 % of the time.
LT tires are designed for trucks that move 95 % of the time .
Search for partymarty's post comparing goodyear tires ST versus LT in a 235 X 16 size by clicking on his Icon under view posts .
Goodyear sells the ST tire for 88 % of the price , 88 % of the weight of the same size LT tire yet the ST tire is placarded for 3500# and the ST tire is placarded for 112% of the weight capacity .
The ST tire is definitely Less tire than the LT tire .
But some folks such as Francesca , are not grasping the fact that an ST tire is less tire than the same size LT tire ..

The problem that those of us with 15" wheels face, is finding the "best of the worst". I've become educated by reading here, and other fora, about the tire situation, and have experienced 8 tire failures in 12 years, one semi-catastropic and 7 caught before they failed while traveling. That's a 100% failure rate. I'm now on my 3rd set of tires. Were there a quality E-range LT in 15", they couldn't make them fast enough to supply the demand...and the hell with what the sidewall says. I have upgraded from the placarded D-range to E-range after my first set, check them often, and keep to 65, or less, so I know I'm not abusing my tires. They're just******from the get-go.

Lyle

Why are you making this so hard.

LT225/70R15 tires Goodyear Cargo G 26 and Continental Vanco both are rated at 2450 # weight.

Four of these are good for 9800 pounds. I am sure that your trailer GVWR is well below that number, then you subtract the pin weight and you would be luck to see 7K on the axles. C, D, D has little to do with it.

Chris