Stainless Steel Lug Nuts----Don't Use Them!

[5thwheeleroldma]

Some of you may remember an earlier post of mine where I had galled all the lug bolts on my 5th wheel. After a month of many problems I won't bore you with, we solved the problem.

Turns out, about 7 years ago I bought some stainless steel lug nuts. So much better than the chrome plated steel, I was told----WRONG!! Turns out stainless steel is softer than the chrome plated nuts. The lug nut threads gradually deformed over the years, then they proceeded to gall my lug bolts. I had noticed over the years I no longer had to torque the nuts, even after a very long trip. I thought this was good, but it was really the warning of a huge problem.

[ol_Bombero-JC]

Bowti wrote:
Interesting topic. In my 55 years of wrenching I have never had a lug nut come loose, however I have snapped off many, when taking off wheels. I have now been using anti-seize for about the last 20 years.

I remember a time when torque wrenches were only used for engine rebuilding and just about everything else was left up to the torque of ones arm.

The widespread practice of torqueing lug nuts seemed to come about with the use of disc brakes, for the prevention of warping the rotors with uneven tightening techniques. A practice which sadly many have still not adapted.

"Wrenching" an equal amount of time (+1) - still have my first TQ wrench I bought from Sears when I was 16 = which was 56 years ago - to rebuild my Ford 'flattie'.

However it 'rests' most of the time - replaced with click types.

Never TQ'd lug nuts until "Mag" and ALUMINUM wheels came along.

If you haven't seen a cracked *aluminum* wheel (no disc brakes) from over tightening lug nuts - you missed something in your 55 years..:W

BTW - never used anti-seize or lubed my nuts..;).. - but I don't live in snow country.

~

[Bowti]

Interesting topic. In my 55 years of wrenching I have never had a lug nut come loose, however I have snapped off many, when taking off wheels. I have now been using anti-seize for about the last 20 years.

I remember a time when torque wrenches were only used for engine rebuilding and just about everything else was left up to the torque of ones arm.

The widespread practice of torqueing lug nuts seemed to come about with the use of disc brakes, for the prevention of warping the rotors with uneven tightening techniques. A practice which sadly many have still not adapted.

[Jonny8491]

Why would one use a lubricant on a nut that you don't want to come loose? Makes no sense to me.

My 2 cents

[Airstreamer67]

I always use a lube on wheel studs because of the problems I had before using it: namely the nuts being "frozen" onto rusty studs and the horrible screeching when trying to remove them and the excessive force it sometimes takes changing a tire on the side of an Interstate.

My lube of choice is engine oil. I follow the recommendations contained in the "Pocket Ref" manual by Thomas J. Glover. This handy reference book specifies various torque reductions for various applications. I'm certain they can be found elsewhere.

Since my preference for always-available engine oil, I reduce the normally specified torque by about 30% as recommended by the book. If I were to use dry moly film or graphite and oil, the reduction would rise to about 45% to 50% as recommended by the book. It depends on the lubrication value of the substance being used. Never-seize is not specifically mentioned in the book.

So it's true that the use of lube can cause excessive torque, but only if the specified torque value is not known and a torque wrench is not used (which is actually true of non-lubed studs too, if you're strong enough or heavy enough or use a cheater pipe or use air tools, etc).

[mudmaker]

Stainless on different metals usually means problems for extreme stress point such as this. Even stainless on stainless can cause issues if the threads aren't cleaned thoroughly. In my experience, never use power tools to tighten or loosen stainless. The heat generated and possibility of debris in the thread trough will bite ya. Clean clean clean those threads before removal and before install.
Never seen stainless lug nuts. Wouldn't like them, that's for sure. OP found the problem and hopefully not have any further issues.

Edit for spelling

[Old-Biscuit]

fj12ryder wrote:
I've read of absolutely no instances of nuts/bolts unscrewing because of the use of anti-seize. We used it at the plant where I worked for 40 years, and I've used it on lug nuts for another 30 years. I also read a couple studies that stated that anti-seize will not cause a problem with the friction holding properties of a bolt when it is limited to the threads.

From what I've read they seem to recommend about 10% less torque with anti-seize than with a dry bolt. That equates to about 8-10 ft.lbs. on a car wheel. Consider the fact that most people don't even use a torque wrench when tightening their lug nuts. It's very unlikely that those lug nuts get tightened to spec when someone changes a tire, so a 10% change in torque specs really are pretty minimal. I mean my wheels on my toyhauler call for 100-110 ft.lbs. That's the difference between lubed studs and non-lubed. So it really comes down to a non-issue.

Okay, I'm done. LOL

X2

[sue_t]

rhingst wrote:
The main issue is the dissimilar metals of carbon steel wheel bolts and stainless nuts. You will usually have a problem when doing this with stainless and another totally different metal.

And add road salt to the mix and you have a big problem.

[fj12ryder]

I've read of absolutely no instances of nuts/bolts unscrewing because of the use of anti-seize. We used it at the plant where I worked for 40 years, and I've used it on lug nuts for another 30 years. I also read a couple studies that stated that anti-seize will not cause a problem with the friction holding properties of a bolt when it is limited to the threads.

From what I've read they seem to recommend about 10% less torque with anti-seize than with a dry bolt. That equates to about 8-10 ft.lbs. on a car wheel. Consider the fact that most people don't even use a torque wrench when tightening their lug nuts. It's very unlikely that those lug nuts get tightened to spec when someone changes a tire, so a 10% change in torque specs really are pretty minimal. I mean my wheels on my toyhauler call for 100-110 ft.lbs. That's the difference between lubed studs and non-lubed. So it really comes down to a non-issue.

Okay, I'm done. LOL

[Vulcaneer]

Why all the discussion? Just avoid using Stainless lug nuts, Like the OP advises. Makes sense to me.

And I happen to agree with him. Dis-similar metals are usually a problem in these types of torquing applications.

Anti Seize will tend to promote bolt/stud stretching due to added lubricity. Usually if a bolt stretches, it will not come up to torque. But sometimes the nut will come up to torque spec. But the bolt can fatigue over time, and THEN the bolt can stretch, without warning. That is until your studs break or the nuts loosen or fall off as you go down the road.

Personally I don't use it on smaller lug studs. Figure if a lug nut gets rusted on, I would rather break the stud and replace it with new. A little bit of a chore. But not that hard, really.

[motorcycle_jack]

My experience with wheeled vehicle anti-seize compound comes from my military experience. Wheeled vehicles had what is called the "dash 10" manual, it described EVERY maintenance function of that vehicle and in every one was a "May cause Death of Injury" statement that said DO NOT USE anti-seize on the lug nuts. The reason I learned in physics class: a screw or bolt is a simple tool (lever, inclined plane, etc.) and in this case is an inclined plane wrapped around a shaft. So if you unwrap it and imagine the nut bearing surface also unwrapped and bearing down on the inclined plane you will see that you want NO lubrication between those surfaces. It could cause slippage when torquing them together beyond what it should be and also the possibility of unloading due to lubrication. Torquing is a DRY function of tightening I was taught.

[Coach-man]

OK, I do not want to steal a thread, but I will ask a question. What is the difference between the wheels of a fifth wheel and that of a car or truck or Class C wheels? Since I am trying to see all the pluses and minuses of fifth wheels before actually buying one, I have seen many posts on problems associated with the wheels and lug nut tightening? Perhaps I am missing something?? Thanks!

[ol_Bombero-JC]

fj12ryder wrote:

wilber1 wrote:

fj12ryder wrote:
Source? Link?

Permatex, anti seize on wheel lugs

LOL Found it the same time I did. 🙂

Hmmmmm - so you didn't believe him (and the source link) "wilber1" first posted......
or are you "potentially" a better source than Permatex - or what..:h

~

[fj12ryder]

wilber1 wrote:

fj12ryder wrote:
Source? Link?

Permatex, anti seize on wheel lugs

LOL Found it the same time I did. 🙂

[wilber1]

fj12ryder wrote:
Source? Link?

Permatex, anti seize on wheel lugs