120VAC problems

[norwestie]

We plugging in to the 50A on the pedestal at a campground Sunday. Here is what happened right after:

(all related to 120VAC):

Several outlets dead
Vacuum cleaner pitch changed up and down when in use
Tower fan burned out (electrical odor noticed)
Coffee machine burned out, smoked noted
Touching exterior door handle, received mild shock

After the fan died and outlets not working, I reported the issue to the camp host. Maintenance man changed the 50 amp receptacle and checked voltage on all legs. All measured normal. When I reconnected, same problems noticed. I tried using my 50A-to-30A adapter and there was no AC power in the coach at all. I then disconnected shore power and ran the generator. Same lack of AC on various outlets. After I received a shock from the door handle, we ran from battery power only.
Perhaps unrelated but when I connected this RV at my home (before this trip) to a 15 amp 120VAC circuit, my GFCI would trip. My previous RV ran fine on the same circuit.
Do all of these point to one issue? I suspect the transfer switch but trust your input.

[msturtz]

DrewE wrote:

norwestie wrote:
UPDATE
I took her to a repair shop I trust yesterday. Got a call later in the day that they were 99% sure they found the problem. Two of the house batteries were dead or close to it. He explained that when plugged into the 50 amp service, the inverter was trying so hard to charge the dead batteries that it caused havoc with the whole 120v system.

It may well be that the batteries were dead and in need of replacement, but this explanation is hogwash if the 120V electrical system is operating properly. The inverter (I assume it's an inverter/charger) would be a reasonably heavy load on one of the legs, but that should in no way cause the voltage in the other leg to skyrocket...or, for that matter, the voltage in its leg to sag too much. If it consumed too much current, it would just trip a circuit breaker somewhere. The only way you could see such swings are if there's a bad connection somewhere, be it in the RV or the campground wiring.

Did they even check that the neutral connections were good and tight in the circuit breaker box on the RV?

That simply doesn't make any sense. Even if your rig has a hybrid inverter charger at most what it does is pass through the line voltage from shore power or the generator. There has to be a problem somewhere else. It could be in the inverter's internal transfer switch. If that failed you could lack the NG bond or an open neutral.

[DrewE]

norwestie wrote:
UPDATE
I took her to a repair shop I trust yesterday. Got a call later in the day that they were 99% sure they found the problem. Two of the house batteries were dead or close to it. He explained that when plugged into the 50 amp service, the inverter was trying so hard to charge the dead batteries that it caused havoc with the whole 120v system.

It may well be that the batteries were dead and in need of replacement, but this explanation is hogwash if the 120V electrical system is operating properly. The inverter (I assume it's an inverter/charger) would be a reasonably heavy load on one of the legs, but that should in no way cause the voltage in the other leg to skyrocket...or, for that matter, the voltage in its leg to sag too much. If it consumed too much current, it would just trip a circuit breaker somewhere. The only way you could see such swings are if there's a bad connection somewhere, be it in the RV or the campground wiring.

Did they even check that the neutral connections were good and tight in the circuit breaker box on the RV?

[enblethen]

"Inverter" or "converter"?
I would be checking the unit to see what amperage it can put out. It maybe time for a larger charging capacity unit, whether it is inverter or converter.
Verify that the batteries are connected so 0ne set of battery negatives goes to ground and the other set's positive goes to the charger.

[norwestie]

UPDATE
I took her to a repair shop I trust yesterday. Got a call later in the day that they were 99% sure they found the problem. Two of the house batteries were dead or close to it. He explained that when plugged into the 50 amp service, the inverter was trying so hard to charge the dead batteries that it caused havoc with the whole 120v system. All he did was to replace the four 12v batteries with four 6v GC-2s and everything works fine.
I watched as the park’s service guy checked voltage on both legs of the pedestal last week so it wasn’t a park issue. I hereby give up my electrical guru lapel pin.

[norwestie]

I have an appointment Tuesday to have it fixed. I'll report back with the fix.

Thank you all for the replies.

[tropical36]

norwestie wrote:
We plugging in to the 50A on the pedestal at a campground Sunday. Here is what happened right after:

(all related to 120VAC):

Several outlets dead
Vacuum cleaner pitch changed up and down when in use
Tower fan burned out (electrical odor noticed)
Coffee machine burned out, smoked noted
Touching exterior door handle, received mild shock

After the fan died and outlets not working, I reported the issue to the camp host. Maintenance man changed the 50 amp receptacle and checked voltage on all legs. All measured normal. When I reconnected, same problems noticed. I tried using my 50A-to-30A adapter and there was no AC power in the coach at all. I then disconnected shore power and ran the generator. Same lack of AC on various outlets. After I received a shock from the door handle, we ran from battery power only.
Perhaps unrelated but when I connected this RV at my home (before this trip) to a 15 amp 120VAC circuit, my GFCI would trip. My previous RV ran fine on the same circuit.
Do all of these point to one issue? I suspect the transfer switch but trust your input.

Neutral is open and with somewhere in the coach, since the genset is acting the same. The vac varying in speed is a dead giveaway, with the voltage swinging up and down and out of control with no return path. Some appliances, like your coffee maker can't stand this with the voltage fluctuation and peaks that could be well over 200 volts.
You should read a steady 120vac, more or less, between either side of the main breaker and neutral or ground either one. If not, check it in the panel and then for working your way back to the transfer switch. All the neutrals should be tied together there, including the one, going back to the genset and this switch is prone for loose connections, resulting in burning of such and crystallizing the wiring in the immediate vicinity of the affected connections.

[Bruce_Brown]

^^^ I'd tend to agree with this. Obviously something was wrong and showed itself at home when it popped the GFI.

At the camp ground, odd how the people before didn't report any kind of issue. If it was at the campground what are the chances of having a problem at home then another once you plugged in there.

Could there be a problem at both places and not the MH itself? Sure there could be, but I'm thinking not.

[Dale_Traveling]

I'd say the problem is in the coach and not the CG. A miswire pedestal wouldn't explain why the symptoms didn't change with the generator. Need to inspect from the output of the ATS to the breaker panel neutral bus bar for a loose neutral connection.

[crasster]

Hopefully it didn't blow out the converter.

[TNGW1500SE]

norwestie wrote:

Tower fan burned out (electrical odor noticed)
Coffee machine burned out, smoked noted
Touching exterior door handle, received mild shock

Something was/is mis-wired. I'd bet a neutral and a hot were/are reversed. Sounds like the fan and the coffee were getting 220 volts. Could be the CG wiring or could be your wiring. Has anyone replace the plug on you electrical cord? If so I'd look for a mis-wire there first.

norwestie wrote:

Maintenance man changed the 50 amp receptacle

Why? That sounds fishy.

Is this RV is "new to you"? Buy it used or new? Is this the first time you've camped plugged into a 50 amp?

[wa8yxm]

Now would be a good time to consider the installation of a SURGE GUARD/Energy Monitor like the Progressive Industries HW-50c..

I strongly suspect if you had one... Complete with optional remote.. The Reomte would have said OPEN NEUTRAL

You have described what happens with an open neutral very well.

[msturtz]

KD4UPL wrote:
There almost has too be two issues here.
I agree, the campground pedestal was probably mis-wired or had an open neutral. This would fry some things.
However, since your RV was tripping the GFCI at your home BEFORE this trip then I suspect you also have a ground fault in the RV. You should have investigated the problem then, at home.
It's possible that the combination of an RV ground fault and a mis-wired pedestal caused more home than it otherwise would have.

Good point I didn’t pick up on that I thought it only was a problem after the power issues. Most certainly if the OP’s rig was tripping the GCFI outlet before the problem that would mean the rig had a wiring problem. That would have exacerbated any pedestal or campground issues.

[KD4UPL]

There almost has too be two issues here.
I agree, the campground pedestal was probably mis-wired or had an open neutral. This would fry some things.
However, since your RV was tripping the GFCI at your home BEFORE this trip then I suspect you also have a ground fault in the RV. You should have investigated the problem then, at home.
It's possible that the combination of an RV ground fault and a mis-wired pedestal caused more home than it otherwise would have.

[msturtz]

Based on what you describe it is highly likely that the campground pedestal had an open neutral or was miswired I.e. hot and neutral swapped. If one of the hot legs were swapped with neutral that can cause a “hot skin condition” especially with an open ground. It is also possible that they had a floating neutral which can also cause a hot skin condition. What is interesting is the burning smell and tone change would likely be caused by a high voltage between neutral and at least one line in your rig. The fact that you have many things not working now would be expected. You can determine what was destroyed by the pedestal by turning off all the breakers in your rig and plugging in to power. If the GCFI outlet still trips then you have current leaking between hot and ground somewhere. A GCFI outlet measures the current leaving the hot leg and what is returning on the neutral leg. If the two are not equal it will trip. If this is the case then you will need to start chasing down where you have an incorrect NG bond. I would check the transfer switch. In separately derived systems such as generators or inverters require their own NG bond. This is commonly done by the transfer switch. Per the NEC a system can have only one NG bond. This is to prevent ground loops or the ground wire being used as a current carrying line. It’s highly likely that when your rig got fried something is shorted between ground and neutral. If your rig doesn’t trip the GCFI outlet with all the breakers switched off that is great news. Next turn on one breaker at a time. For each circuit using a volt meter or non contact voltage checker determine if voltage is present at outlets. It’s best to start with convenience outlet circuits first. Unplug everything first. All you are doing is checking the wiring not the items that are plugged into them. At a minimum you will likely need to replace anything burned up by the pedestal. I suspect that the solenoid in the transfer switch has failed. That would cause the no power situation if it failed open. That would also explain the problems with the GCFI outlet. Once you get your rig fixed I strongly recommend you purchase an energy management system such as from Progressive Industries or Surge Guard. They prevent this problem from damaging your rig or potentially killing you.