Carrying capacity question, vista

pulsar wrote:
...Do you really think that RVers should calculate the weight of those fluids as part of their cargo?...

yup. it ain't hard...we did it. the industry could make these various weights and rating a LOT more relevant or easier to understand. for instance:

Dry Weight (factory and dealer options, no fluids) by axle
Fuel Weight: X gallons weighing Y pounds on the rear axle
Water Weight: X gallons weighing Y pounds on the ? axle
LP Weight...you get the idea
Owner can add X pounds to the rear axle and X pounds to the front axle befor violating GVWR.

what you'd be left with is a really good idea of how much payload there is on each axle. of course if this was done some mfgs of some models might be embarrassed by how little payload some MHs have. that's pretty much how it used to be done back in the early to mid 80's when we were shopping for our first MH.

I recall reading the reviews in Motorhome magazine which always referred to Empty weight, wet weight and payload. the only problem was they didn't do it by axle. it was simple and it worked.

pulsar wrote:
In the end, I believe that all RVers should have their rigs weight, preferably each wheel separately, after they have loaded it.

Tom

we agree completely on that. if weight didn't matter then there wouldn't be scales or weight ratings.

rk911 wrote:

pulsar wrote:
The OCCC for a new coach will be on a federally required label, which can be found in the drivers area near, the vehicle certification label. Sales people I've talked with, don't know the label is there.

On edit:

OCCC = GVWR - UVW - propane

UVW is the weight of the motorhme as built at the factory with full fuel, engine oil and coolants

Water and occupants count as cargo; propane does not.

Sources: 49 CFR 571.110 as found on www.law.cornell.edu


Tom

all of these new weight ratings (OCCC, UVW, etc.) are, in my opinion, designed to confuse. I prefer to consider weights and weight ratings this way. GVWR minus the actual unloaded weight of the MH (nothing in it that didn't come from the factory or added dealer options) equals the payload. and one needs individual axle weights to determine not only how much payload the MH has but where it is located.

First, UVW is not new; it has been used by the RV industry for as long as I can remember. It was used in the original CCC definition that came out in 2000 and it was used in the NCC definition that goes back much further. UVW is identical to curb weight that has been used by the automotive industry for even a longer period of time.

It appears that you want to use the dry weight, which doesn't include fuel, oil, nor coolant. I think it unrealistic to think that the majority (let alone large majority) of RVers would calculate the weight of the fuel, oil and coolant as part of their cargo. Do you really think that RVers should calculate the weight of those fluids as part of their cargo?

Because I understood it, I didn't mind the old CCC. But I will admit the sleeping position part of the calculation would cause a problem for many, if they were trying to calculate how they could "fudge" by having fewer occupants.

The newer OCCC accounts for what is not really flexible. GVWR - UVW - propane, assuming that all RVs will need to carry propane and that is not likely that many will ask for a partial fill of their propane tank(s).

Recognizing that many RVers don't have as many passengers as the RV could carry and that an RVer may choose not to take a full tank of water, the OCCC definition places water and occupants in the cargo category. In that light, the regulation requires that how to calculate the weight of the water is on the OCCC label that is required to be posted in the driver section of the coach.

In the end, I believe that all RVers should have their rigs weight, preferably each wheel separately, after they have loaded it.

Tom

pulsar wrote:
The OCCC for a new coach will be on a federally required label, which can be found in the drivers area near, the vehicle certification label. Sales people I've talked with, don't know the label is there.

On edit:

OCCC = GVWR - UVW - propane

UVW is the weight of the motorhme as built at the factory with full fuel, engine oil and coolants

Water and occupants count as cargo; propane does not.

Sources: 49 CFR 571.110 as found on www.law.cornell.edu


Tom

all of these new weight ratings (OCCC, UVW, etc.) are, in my opinion, designed to confuse. I prefer to consider weights and weight ratings this way. GVWR minus the actual unloaded weight of the MH (nothing in it that didn't come from the factory or added dealer options) equals the payload. and one needs individual axle weights to determine not only how much payload the MH has but where it is located.

The OCCC for a new coach will be on a federally required label, which can be found in the drivers area near, the vehicle certification label. Sales people I've talked with, don't know the label is there.

On edit:

OCCC = GVWR - UVW - propane

UVW is the weight of the motorhme as built at the factory with full fuel, engine oil and coolants

Water and occupants count as cargo; propane does not.

Sources: 49 CFR 571.110 as found on www.law.cornell.edu


Tom

How about 18 or 24 gal on Propane at 4 lbs/gal.

The surprising thing is how much our "stuff" weighs. Clothes, food, drinks electronics, toys add up to 1,500 to 2,000 lbs in a hurry. Fortunately we now have Kindles so we saved about 200 lbs in books we used to carry, just in case. . . :)

When weighing it is best to get 4 corner weights. You might be borderline okay front axle to back axle and find you are 500 lbs or more off left/right. This could overload a wheel by 500 lbs (not trivial) even though the axle is fine.

Best to have the dealer provide you with 4 corner weights as a condition of purchase

By no means should you believe anything a salesman tells you that sounds favorable, he isn't going to driving down the road with you and your family.

Information on how the OCCC is reported can be found in the Introduction section of the Vista manual, which you can download from the Owners section at gowinnebago.com. Apparently your salesman doesn't read manuals for the products he sells.

There is no practical way for Winnebago to publish OCCC values because the numbers depend on the options installed. Calling customer service will not result in the right number unless you specify exactly which options are installed. Did you note the 4255 pound number I mentioned for a 35B? I've got a photo of a label from another 35B that shows 3930 pounds because it has a slightly different set of options. The weight difference is roughly equivalent to a half tank of fresh water.

hoopers wrote:

Gas tank is 80 gallon. Water is 75 gallons. This is about 1300 lbs.

That leaves 1400 lbs. Is this enough?
By the time you add passengers, a 500 lb hitch capacity, there is maybe only 500 lbs left for gear.
It is one of the most popular models, so I am wondering if I am missing something.

Check your numbers; I believe you're shorting yourself. 80 gallons of gas @ 6 lbs/gallon = 480 lbs. 75 gallons of water @ 8 lbs/gallon = 600 lbs. Total = 1080 lbs. Figures may vary a bit depending on temperature/pressure, but should be quite a bit less than 1300 lbs.

tropical36 wrote:

hoopers wrote:
Looking at the Vista 30T carrying capacity...seems from what I can tell, it is 2700 lbs.
The dry weight is 15,300 lbs.
GVWR is spec'd at 18000 lbs.

Gas tank is 80 gallon. Water is 75 gallons. This is about 1300 lbs.

That leaves 1400 lbs. Is this enough?
By the time you add passengers, a 500 lb hitch capacity, there is maybe only 500 lbs left for gear.
It is one of the most popular models, so I am wondering if I am missing something.

Sounds about right and mine is 2950. I'm thinking that the dry weight (curb weight) includes a full tank of gas and all oils, so not as bad as it seems. Where we lack with ours, is in the GCVW max. because of the 4L80E transmission, which hates heavy toads. Having said all this, one might be surprised with the number of overloaded coaches on the road and that includes some DP's. Still they function pretty well and nothing falls off, breaks or explodes in most cases.

I got the dry weight from the salesman, who looked in the coach. Winnebego doesn't seem to publish any numbers, which makes the situation even more difficult. If the dry weight includes, gas, than the situation is better.

I probably should call Winnebago customer service and see what they say about dry weight including or not including gas.

Dave, I'm wondering where you got the "dry weight" number. The 30T was introduced in 2012, well after the 2008 federal regulation that specified how cargo capacity should be described. Dry weight is not part of that description.

There should be a label, "Motorhome Occupant and Cargo Carrying Capacity" on the wall by the driver's seat. For new units, there should be a similar label on the inside of the screen door. The label specifies the maximum weight of occupants and cargo. Water is considered cargo, but not a full tank of gas, oil, radiator fluid, propane, or other liquids associated with the chassis (essentially chassis "wet weight").

I have a picture of an OCCC label from a Vista 35B (GVWR 22K) with almost all options. It shows an OCCC of 4255 pounds. If the 93-gallon fresh water tank is filled, the OCCC would be reduced by 774 pounds.

hoopers wrote:
Looking at the Vista 30T carrying capacity...seems from what I can tell, it is 2700 lbs.
The dry weight is 15,300 lbs.
GVWR is spec'd at 18000 lbs.

Gas tank is 80 gallon. Water is 75 gallons. This is about 1300 lbs.

That leaves 1400 lbs. Is this enough?
By the time you add passengers, a 500 lb hitch capacity, there is maybe only 500 lbs left for gear.
It is one of the most popular models, so I am wondering if I am missing something.

Sounds about right and mine is 2950. I'm thinking that the dry weight (curb weight) includes a full tank of gas and all oils, so not as bad as it seems. Where we lack with ours, is in the GCVW max. because of the 4L80E transmission, which hates heavy toads. Having said all this, one might be surprised with the number of overloaded coaches on the road and that includes some DP's. Still they function pretty well and nothing falls off, breaks or explodes in most cases.