Forum Discussion

cvbdsl's avatar
cvbdsl
Explorer
Aug 07, 2015

Is my BIRD working?

OK, so my chassis batteries keep going down, even when plugged in.
When I run the genny they do not charge, when I run the engine they do charge.

When plugged in I do not hear any clicking from the BIRD (as some state they do) even when the chassis batteries are down.

I'm thinking of ordering a new BIRD but it looks like a PITA to change it, a large red power cable runs right tight over it.

Its either the BIRD or the relay - a quick look the other day seemed to show fuses on either side of the relay (MH not in a good location to really see - am moving it). Are there fuses on either side?
Class A
  • dougrainer's avatar
    dougrainer
    Nomad
    Aug 09, 2015
    TNGW1500SE wrote:
    cvbdsl wrote:
    Thanks, I didn't think of checking the ground:o!
    BIRD = Bi-directional Isolator Relay Delay
    It is the device that is supposed to switch between charging house and chassis batteries.

    Chris


    Thanks. I thought a bird was a hand signal used while driving. I had no idea.


    THE Bird is the hand signal.:) A Bird is the device. Doug
  • TNGW1500SE's avatar
    TNGW1500SE
    Explorer
    Aug 09, 2015
    cvbdsl wrote:
    Thanks, I didn't think of checking the ground:o!
    BIRD = Bi-directional Isolator Relay Delay
    It is the device that is supposed to switch between charging house and chassis batteries.

    Chris


    Thanks. I thought a bird was a hand signal used while driving. I had no idea.
  • dougrainer's avatar
    dougrainer
    Nomad
    Aug 08, 2015
    holstein13 wrote:
    cvbdsl wrote:
    holstein13 wrote:
    Newmar no longer uses the BIRD. Now they use a BIM, Battery Isolation Manager.

    Any idea if it backwards compatible (e.g. can I swap it in for the BIRD)? If I have to replace it, might as well use the latest technology?
    Chris, please take a look at this .pdf document from Newmar: https://comnet2.newmarcorp.com/instance1Env99NEWMAR/html/images/SS2011Electrical12V.pdf

    The BIRD uses an additional separate disconnect relay and the BIM does not which suggests to me that you might possibly be able to do this. But please don't take any advice from me. Read the document and call Newmar for guidance.


    I think you are mistaken. The BIM solenoid is NOT the battery disconnect solenoid. Just as the Big Boy solenoid on the BIRD system is NOT the battery disconnect solenoid. They do use a separate solenoid to disconnect the coach batteries. The battery disconnect solenoids are rated at no more than 100 amps DC current thru them. The BIM and BIRD Big Boy solenoids are rated at 200 amps current. Doug
  • dougrainer's avatar
    dougrainer
    Nomad
    Aug 08, 2015
    cvbdsl wrote:
    Just having a closer look at the BIRD and managed to get a large cable out of the way. Is it usual not to have anything connected to the generator contact on the BIRD (and yes I do have a generator).

    Thanks


    Newmar does NOT connect the Genset spade. Doug
  • RayChez's avatar
    RayChez
    Explorer
    Aug 08, 2015
    Dougrainer is exactly correct. I have the same BIRD as he is showing on the link and that is how it works.
  • cvbdsl's avatar
    cvbdsl
    Explorer
    Aug 08, 2015
    Just having a closer look at the BIRD and managed to get a large cable out of the way. Is it usual not to have anything connected to the generator contact on the BIRD (and yes I do have a generator).

    Thanks
  • cvbdsl's avatar
    cvbdsl
    Explorer
    Aug 08, 2015
    filadelfia wrote:
    Are you sure you have a BIRD system not an IRD system? If you have the IRD, a device such as the trickle-start can be easily installed to charge the chassis batteries while plugged in to shore power or on generator power.

    Don


    Yep, positive I have a BIRD, confirmed with pictures and online documents. However if I can't solve the problem I'll have to look at a trickle-charging device to maintain the chassis batteries.

    Thanks

    Chris
  • cvbdsl's avatar
    cvbdsl
    Explorer
    Aug 08, 2015
    holstein13 wrote:
    cvbdsl wrote:
    holstein13 wrote:
    Newmar no longer uses the BIRD. Now they use a BIM, Battery Isolation Manager.

    Any idea if it backwards compatible (e.g. can I swap it in for the BIRD)? If I have to replace it, might as well use the latest technology?
    Chris, please take a look at this .pdf document from Newmar: https://comnet2.newmarcorp.com/instance1Env99NEWMAR/html/images/SS2011Electrical12V.pdf

    The BIRD uses an additional separate disconnect relay and the BIM does not which suggests to me that you might possibly be able to do this. But please don't take any advice from me. Read the document and call Newmar for guidance.


    Thanks very much for the link to the document - it also clarifies what I did wrong last winter (used the disconnect) although I don't think it would make any difference as it seems it wouldn't have charged anyhow. Hopefully today I'll be able to get out and check the ground and use a meter. Also will check all fuses.

    Thanks

    Chris
  • cvbdsl's avatar
    cvbdsl
    Explorer
    Aug 08, 2015
    dougrainer wrote:
    The BIRD MAIN function is NOT to charge the chassis batteries on a Newmar(Intellitec). Its function is to jump the coach Batteries to the chassis Engine Alternator to charge while in transit. That said, the secondary function of the BIRD is to charge the chassis while plugged into shore power if a condition is met. That condition requires that the Power Converter(Or Inverter/Charger) must be over 13.1 , for at least 2 minute. When the BIRD "sees" that voltage, it sends a 12 volt signal to the charge (boost) solenoid to close and that solenoid connects both coach and chassis batteries. Once the Power Converter(or Inverter/Charger) goes to float charge and that charge voltage drops below 13.1 volts the BIRD drops out and your chassis will not charge from the Coach charging system. Now, on your year Newmar, you have a small solar charger mounted directly above the drivers seat on the roof and THAT solar charger is installed to maintain the chassis battery system. You can still purchase a Intellitec BIRD. You do not have to go thru Newmar or change or update to what Newmar currently uses. You just need to verify that the charging system is functioning as I outlined. The BIRD is NOT want you think it is from your description. It is a small black box the size of a cigarette pack mounted in the Shore Cord compartment on the wall. Below is a link to what the BIRD is on your Newmar. Doug

    http://www.intellitec.com/index.php/products/DC_Power_Management/Intelligent_battery_charging/The_BIRD

    this is what the Big Boy solenoid looks like mounted in the shore cord compartment.

    http://paneltronics.com/Datasheets/Big%20Boy%20200%20Amp2G_2pagedoc.pdf


    OK, I fully agree, was just simplifying.
    I know what the BIRD looks like - I think you might be confusing my description of the transfer switch for the user that said the BIRD is the transfer switch. Got the pictures and everything of the BIRD to make sure I am looking for the right part number. I also have the manuals.
    My inverter/charger is over 13.1 on the house side and when plugged in my chassis batteries never seem to get charged.

    Chirs
  • RayChez's avatar
    RayChez
    Explorer
    Aug 08, 2015
    The problem is the transfer board in your inverter/charger. I had that repaired a few years back at the Zantrax shop in Portland, Oregon. Wire had come lose. $400.

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