Is my BIRD working?

[cvbdsl]

OK, so my chassis batteries keep going down, even when plugged in.
When I run the genny they do not charge, when I run the engine they do charge.

When plugged in I do not hear any clicking from the BIRD (as some state they do) even when the chassis batteries are down.

I'm thinking of ordering a new BIRD but it looks like a PITA to change it, a large red power cable runs right tight over it.

Its either the BIRD or the relay - a quick look the other day seemed to show fuses on either side of the relay (MH not in a good location to really see - am moving it). Are there fuses on either side?

[dougrainer]

TNGW1500SE wrote:

cvbdsl wrote:
Thanks, I didn't think of checking the ground:o!
BIRD = Bi-directional Isolator Relay Delay
It is the device that is supposed to switch between charging house and chassis batteries.

Chris

Thanks. I thought a bird was a hand signal used while driving. I had no idea.

THE Bird is the hand signal.:) A Bird is the device. Doug

[TNGW1500SE]

cvbdsl wrote:
Thanks, I didn't think of checking the ground:o!
BIRD = Bi-directional Isolator Relay Delay
It is the device that is supposed to switch between charging house and chassis batteries.

Chris

Thanks. I thought a bird was a hand signal used while driving. I had no idea.

[dougrainer]

holstein13 wrote:

cvbdsl wrote:

holstein13 wrote:
Newmar no longer uses the BIRD. Now they use a BIM, Battery Isolation Manager.

Any idea if it backwards compatible (e.g. can I swap it in for the BIRD)? If I have to replace it, might as well use the latest technology?

Chris, please take a look at this .pdf document from Newmar: https://comnet2.newmarcorp.com/instance1Env99NEWMAR/html/images/SS2011Electrical12V.pdf

The BIRD uses an additional separate disconnect relay and the BIM does not which suggests to me that you might possibly be able to do this. But please don't take any advice from me. Read the document and call Newmar for guidance.

I think you are mistaken. The BIM solenoid is NOT the battery disconnect solenoid. Just as the Big Boy solenoid on the BIRD system is NOT the battery disconnect solenoid. They do use a separate solenoid to disconnect the coach batteries. The battery disconnect solenoids are rated at no more than 100 amps DC current thru them. The BIM and BIRD Big Boy solenoids are rated at 200 amps current. Doug

[dougrainer]

cvbdsl wrote:
Just having a closer look at the BIRD and managed to get a large cable out of the way. Is it usual not to have anything connected to the generator contact on the BIRD (and yes I do have a generator).

Thanks

Newmar does NOT connect the Genset spade. Doug

[RayChez]

Dougrainer is exactly correct. I have the same BIRD as he is showing on the link and that is how it works.

[cvbdsl]

Just having a closer look at the BIRD and managed to get a large cable out of the way. Is it usual not to have anything connected to the generator contact on the BIRD (and yes I do have a generator).

Thanks

[cvbdsl]

filadelfia wrote:
Are you sure you have a BIRD system not an IRD system? If you have the IRD, a device such as the trickle-start can be easily installed to charge the chassis batteries while plugged in to shore power or on generator power.

Don

Yep, positive I have a BIRD, confirmed with pictures and online documents. However if I can't solve the problem I'll have to look at a trickle-charging device to maintain the chassis batteries.

Thanks

Chris

[cvbdsl]

holstein13 wrote:

cvbdsl wrote:

holstein13 wrote:
Newmar no longer uses the BIRD. Now they use a BIM, Battery Isolation Manager.

Any idea if it backwards compatible (e.g. can I swap it in for the BIRD)? If I have to replace it, might as well use the latest technology?

Chris, please take a look at this .pdf document from Newmar: https://comnet2.newmarcorp.com/instance1Env99NEWMAR/html/images/SS2011Electrical12V.pdf

The BIRD uses an additional separate disconnect relay and the BIM does not which suggests to me that you might possibly be able to do this. But please don't take any advice from me. Read the document and call Newmar for guidance.

Thanks very much for the link to the document - it also clarifies what I did wrong last winter (used the disconnect) although I don't think it would make any difference as it seems it wouldn't have charged anyhow. Hopefully today I'll be able to get out and check the ground and use a meter. Also will check all fuses.

Thanks

Chris

[cvbdsl]

dougrainer wrote:
The BIRD MAIN function is NOT to charge the chassis batteries on a Newmar(Intellitec). Its function is to jump the coach Batteries to the chassis Engine Alternator to charge while in transit. That said, the secondary function of the BIRD is to charge the chassis while plugged into shore power if a condition is met. That condition requires that the Power Converter(Or Inverter/Charger) must be over 13.1 , for at least 2 minute. When the BIRD "sees" that voltage, it sends a 12 volt signal to the charge (boost) solenoid to close and that solenoid connects both coach and chassis batteries. Once the Power Converter(or Inverter/Charger) goes to float charge and that charge voltage drops below 13.1 volts the BIRD drops out and your chassis will not charge from the Coach charging system. Now, on your year Newmar, you have a small solar charger mounted directly above the drivers seat on the roof and THAT solar charger is installed to maintain the chassis battery system. You can still purchase a Intellitec BIRD. You do not have to go thru Newmar or change or update to what Newmar currently uses. You just need to verify that the charging system is functioning as I outlined. The BIRD is NOT want you think it is from your description. It is a small black box the size of a cigarette pack mounted in the Shore Cord compartment on the wall. Below is a link to what the BIRD is on your Newmar. Doug

http://www.intellitec.com/index.php/products/DC_Power_Management/Intelligent_battery_charging/The_BI...

this is what the Big Boy solenoid looks like mounted in the shore cord compartment.

http://paneltronics.com/Datasheets/Big%20Boy%20200%20Amp2G_2pagedoc.pdf

OK, I fully agree, was just simplifying.
I know what the BIRD looks like - I think you might be confusing my description of the transfer switch for the user that said the BIRD is the transfer switch. Got the pictures and everything of the BIRD to make sure I am looking for the right part number. I also have the manuals.
My inverter/charger is over 13.1 on the house side and when plugged in my chassis batteries never seem to get charged.

Chirs

[RayChez]

The problem is the transfer board in your inverter/charger. I had that repaired a few years back at the Zantrax shop in Portland, Oregon. Wire had come lose. $400.

[dougrainer]

holstein13 wrote:
Newmar no longer uses the BIRD. Now they use a BIM, Battery Isolation Manager.

Which is the same design just a different Manufacturer. The parameters are almost identical. BUT, there is one thing that makes changing from the old Intellitec BIRD to the BIM a good idea. The BIM monitors the actual Chassis battery voltage and IF that voltage drops to 80% of charge, the BIM connects the coach back to the chassis to allow the coach Charging system to keep the chassis battery up. The BIRD system does not do that. It monitors the Coach Charge system voltage and must be over 13.1 volts to keep the chassis connected. Replacing the BIRD with a BIM is very simple. You just replace the BIG BOY solenoid and the supplied BIM module and all wiring is already at the old system. Precision Circuits which makes the BIM, he is a old Intellitec (BIRD maker) engineer that quit and started PCI, and used his knowledge to make RV electrical systems BETTER. For instance, the 50 amp EMS systems by Intellitec that were all used before PCI came out, IF it malfunctioned all shed loads were dead, no 120 to those loads. He designed the PCI system to keep the relays CLOSED if his system failed and that left all 120 shed controlled loads still able to have power and you manually adjusted your loads until fixed. He has done the same with his BIM. Made it better by monitoring the chassis battery state of charge instead of relying on the coach charge voltage. Doug

[holstein13]

cvbdsl wrote:

holstein13 wrote:
Newmar no longer uses the BIRD. Now they use a BIM, Battery Isolation Manager.

Any idea if it backwards compatible (e.g. can I swap it in for the BIRD)? If I have to replace it, might as well use the latest technology?

Chris, please take a look at this .pdf document from Newmar: https://comnet2.newmarcorp.com/instance1Env99NEWMAR/html/images/SS2011Electrical12V.pdf

The BIRD uses an additional separate disconnect relay and the BIM does not which suggests to me that you might possibly be able to do this. But please don't take any advice from me. Read the document and call Newmar for guidance.

[filadelfia]

Are you sure you have a BIRD system not an IRD system? If you have the IRD, a device such as the trickle-start can be easily installed to charge the chassis batteries while plugged in to shore power or on generator power.

Don

[dougrainer]

The BIRD MAIN function is NOT to charge the chassis batteries on a Newmar(Intellitec). Its function is to jump the coach Batteries to the chassis Engine Alternator to charge while in transit. That said, the secondary function of the BIRD is to charge the chassis while plugged into shore power if a condition is met. That condition requires that the Power Converter(Or Inverter/Charger) must be over 13.1 , for at least 2 minute. When the BIRD "sees" that voltage, it sends a 12 volt signal to the charge (boost) solenoid to close and that solenoid connects both coach and chassis batteries. Once the Power Converter(or Inverter/Charger) goes to float charge and that charge voltage drops below 13.1 volts the BIRD drops out and your chassis will not charge from the Coach charging system. Now, on your year Newmar, you have a small solar charger mounted directly above the drivers seat on the roof and THAT solar charger is installed to maintain the chassis battery system. You can still purchase a Intellitec BIRD. You do not have to go thru Newmar or change or update to what Newmar currently uses. You just need to verify that the charging system is functioning as I outlined. The BIRD is NOT want you think it is from your description. It is a small black box the size of a cigarette pack mounted in the Shore Cord compartment on the wall. Below is a link to what the BIRD is on your Newmar. Doug

http://www.intellitec.com/index.php/products/DC_Power_Management/Intelligent_battery_charging/The_BI...

this is what the Big Boy solenoid looks like mounted in the shore cord compartment.

http://paneltronics.com/Datasheets/Big%20Boy%20200%20Amp2G_2pagedoc.pdf