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Lifting my class C

Nomadist
Explorer II
Explorer II
I have a new-to-me Class C, a 1997 Four Winds, 23ft long.

Often, when I enter a gas station or other driveway, I drag my butt on the pavement. Technically, I drag the hitch (see pic below). I'm afraid this will get worse when I'm towing my 7x14 trailer that will carry my motorcycle. I also want to go onto dirt roads and perhaps a tiny bit offroad to do some boondocking.

This picture shows the problem:



And how low the hitch has been placed is making it worse:



My options seem to be:
  • add castor wheels
  • raise the vehicle permanently with a lift kit; I've identified one for $2k (installation extra) that will do the job
  • raise the vehicle on-demand with air bags
  • raise the hitch
  • a combination of the above

I'm sorting through the options and, as this is my first RV, I'm learning fast.

A few notes and tips I've learned from others:
  • the lift kit will bring up the entire rig by 5", front and back
  • the geometry of this type of vehicle does not allow for many good options (agreed! who designed this with so much cabin behind the rear wheel?); the person who mentioned this to me stressed getting castor wheels no matter what else I do
  • like the castor wheels, I've been advised to add airbags no matter what as this helps firm up the rear when loaded with the trailer; this person also suggested foregoing the lift kit and just going with the castor wheels and air bags because lifting the entire rig will make the steering less safe. This makes sense to me and I'm leaning toward this (castor wheels plus air bags, no lift kit).

But the problem is made much worse with the hitch placement. My question to the folks here is whether the hitch can be raised in some way. The visible part appears to be attached to a long bar that appears, in turn, to be attached to the frame. Is there a hitch design that isn't so low? It looks like that alone would give me four more precious inches.

Then again, with the wheels and airbags, maybe lifting the hitch isn't necessary. Perhaps I should spend only a bit of time and money since I expect this to be my training rig to be upgraded within 24 months.

Thoughts?

Edit: got the pictures in
79 REPLIES 79

pianotuna
Nomad II
Nomad II
I solved most of my issues by getting taller tires. I did replace the rims, too. I still have a roller in place but scrapping is mostly a thing of the past.

I did add a leaf (and replace some broken ones) on the rear wheels.
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

Nomadist
Explorer II
Explorer II
BruceMc, that's my understanding, too (that for Class C's the length behind the wheels is the most important factor).

It's actually a pain in the butt having such a long overhang. I have to be extra careful even just to enter a gas station. I'm quite sure it's going to restrict me as I search for boondocking locations.

But this is my first rig and I'm learning tons. I'm relating to it as my laboratory for me to make experiments. My next rig will *definitely* have a decent departure angle. In the meantime, I'll just make a list of all the places I'll have to return to with the next rig while I enjoy the places I can go. ๐Ÿ™‚

BruceMc
Explorer III
Explorer III
Gjac wrote:
BruceMc said: ... Do you mean the GC of the front end is less than ford, and it raises the rear end? Most gas 24 ft C's have the 158-159 WB so I assume the over hang is pretty much the same. Is there a minimum GC at the rear hitch you need so it does not drag?


There's two factors at play here. First, and perhaps more important, is the length of the overhang. Let's say you have two motorhomes where both are on the same chassis with the same wheelbase, but one is 24' and the other is 27'. As there's 3 more feet behind the wheels, there's a lot more chance for interference - the hitch will be in contact with the ground more frequently.

Secondly, because the GM chassis front end rides lower than Ford, that increases the GC (ground clearance) at the hitch, given the ride height is the same at the rear axle. If you have two motorhomes of the same model on GM and Ford with the same/similar WB (wheelbase), the GC of the hitch will ride higher on the GM due to the lower ride height, again, given the ride height is the same at the rear axle.
2016 Forest River Sunseeker 2250SLEC Chevrolet 6.0L

Gjac
Explorer III
Explorer III
BruceMc said: Our Sunseeker on Chevy is 24'; due to the shorter overhang and the lower frontend typical of GM's cutaway chassis, we've never touched the tail on any surface: I was looking at the Sunseeker, I like the partial front cap, Queen bed and a large storage bay underneath. When you say "lower front end typical of GM", Do you mean the GC of the front end is less than ford, and it raises the rear end? Most gas 24 ft C's have the 158-159 WB so I assume the over hang is pretty much the same. Is there a minimum GC at the rear hitch you need so it does not drag?

Grit_dog
Navigator
Navigator
That said, using air to "jack up" the vehicle every time you come to a situation you'd need to seems totally impractical, even with an onboard compressor controlled form the cab. You won't be riding around with 50-100psi in the bags presumably, as that defeats the purpose of the suspension, if the springs are good and rig is loaded right.
Everything is a compromise, and since you've not shared that you've addressed anything mechanically with the RV, it must be ok for you.
2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5โ€ turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29 - Sold.
Couple of Arctic Fox TCs - Sold

BruceMc
Explorer III
Explorer III
We used to fill the Firestone airbags with the home compressor before each trip; one had a verrry slow leak.
Otherwise, they were fine during the trip; no adjustments needed.

Regarding tires: I've been considering changing the size on the Sunseeker, not for ride height, but to provide a bit better tire to tire clearance between the duals.

Here's a chart to get you started. These numbers were pulled from Discount Tire's website for the ranges I was interested in:

235 85 16. Overall Diameter 31.7
245 75 16. Overall Diameter 30.5
215 85 16. Overall Diameter 30.4 - Current tires on the Canyon
235 75 16. Overall Diameter 29.8 - 2012 Canyon OEM size
245 70 16. Overall Diameter 29.53
225 75 16. Overall Diameter 29.13 - Motorhome/First Canyon replacements
215 75 16. Overall Diameter 28.9

As noted, I put LT215/85 16 on the Canyon this time. I had P225/85 16 before, but the speedometer was off by about 3mph at normal highway speeds and was off a bit less with the original P235/75 16 tires. I also wanted a more durable tire for our back-country runs, tho the P tires were never an issue.
The LT215/85 16 are the standard tire size on Sprinter vans, if I'm not mistaken.

On the springs: I had found a shop in Portland (Oregon Auto Spring Services, if I recall) that would re-curve the existing, or replace with a new spring set on our Four Winds. I never did either... I sold the Four Winds and got the Sunseeker instead. Problem solved (for me).
2016 Forest River Sunseeker 2250SLEC Chevrolet 6.0L

bobndot
Explorer II
Explorer II
I think most people set the bags at a comfortable level and leave them at that mark. From time to time, adjusting air from a portable 12v compressor did the job when I had AB's in my previous TC, however the bike pump will work.
If I did add a compressor, it would be hardwired with a switch. The compressor that I removed was only the size of a C battery. I could not believe the small size compared to its very large price tag.

Have a spring shop check your springs. My shop wanted to insert a spacer to give me more height when they saw the AB's didn't do it. Doing that would offer more height but not make the ride harder as if to add a leaf to the pack.
You could also look into a slightly larger diameter tire working off the same wheel.

Grit_dog
Navigator
Navigator
Nomadist wrote:


Good to know about your airbags. It leads me to think I should test with just a bicycle pump before I invest in any sort of compressor.


Maybe I'm totally confused here, but following your list of presumably DIY upgrades, you seem FAR handier than my first impression with your question(s) in this thread.
I am at a total loss as to why you would not already own, or consider that an air compressor is not basically an essential tool in your kit.

Is it that you do zero mechanical work and only handyman type stuff?
I can't hardly make it a week at home without air and its even an inconvenience when I don't have onboard air on the road at times.

And after ALL the improvements to your camper, the tail dragging issue is either not really an issue for you or you haven't addressed it? You can go to basically any service station or tire shop and use their air hose and air those up in about 30 seconds.

Regarding the comments that airbags "don't work" on class C's, and barely raise the height, that also doesn't compute, at all. I find it all but impossible, if you air them up to max psi and take 5000-7000lbs of load off the rear springs that you dont raise the frame off the axle by at least a few inches which transferred out to the end of the overhang would be slightly more than that.
2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5โ€ turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29 - Sold.
Couple of Arctic Fox TCs - Sold

Nomadist
Explorer II
Explorer II
Thanks, Bobndot. Lot of hours went into it but I learned a ton and now I know more for my next rig.

Good to know about your airbags. It leads me to think I should test with just a bicycle pump before I invest in any sort of compressor.

bobndot
Explorer II
Explorer II
nomadist, nice job on the rv, looks great.
You pack up your Beemer much the same as we did.

I was trying to gain a few inches on my 24ft "C" and I tried a set of wireless AirLift bags and they only lifted my rig about 1/2" above sitting level.
The wireless end of things didn't work well either, so I removed the setup entirely. IMO, AB's will work differently on different frames along with different brands of bags and how they mount.

BruceMc
Explorer III
Explorer III
Gjac wrote:
Is this tail dragging an issue for all short Class C's or only certain ones. I notice some rear overhangs taper up slightly from the rear wheels and some have a more defined taper starting half way between rear tires and back bumper. Is one a better design than the other?


The older Four Winds certainly were designed with a long overhang, as shown by the OP's original image:



Ours was 27'; it had that long overhang as well:







I had those airbags inflated to maximum pressure as much as possible:





Our Sunseeker on Chevy is 24'; due to the shorter overhang and the lower frontend typical of GM's cutaway chassis, we've never touched the tail on any surface:





It all depends on the manufacturer, model and the chassis.
2016 Forest River Sunseeker 2250SLEC Chevrolet 6.0L

Gjac
Explorer III
Explorer III
Is this tail dragging an issue for all short Class C's or only certain ones. I notice some rear overhangs taper up slightly from the rear wheels and some have a more defined taper starting half way between rear tires and back bumper. Is one a better design than the other?

Nomadist
Explorer II
Explorer II
In the immortal words of that character in Monty Python and the Holy Grail, "I'm not dead yet!" (video clip).


I have been busy! And on April 5, 2021 I left the San Francisco Bay Area with my highly upgraded rig, toward Austin, TX to set up my new domicile.

When it came down to crunch time, fitting an air compressor didn't make the short list so I decided to move it to the "figure it out on the road" list.

The list of upgrades I performed is long:
โ€ข new fan-cooled LED headlights
โ€ข new countertop
โ€ข new, deep, single sink with flexible faucet
โ€ข new custom-made sink cover
โ€ข new backsplash behind stove
โ€ข new interior LED lights everywhere
โ€ข new kitchen table
โ€ข new custom-made blackout privacy curtains between the cab and living area; doing a great job stopping heat from the cab getting through
โ€ข new custom-made blackout curtains in the cabover
โ€ข new flooring leading to and in the bathroom (removed carpet)
โ€ข primer and two-coats of paint on the cupboards, walls and ceiling; dual colors (dark grey and white)
โ€ข new carpet in the cab (no pic of that)
โ€ข extra Hebron 12V freezer under one of the seats
โ€ข new Webasto heater that gets fuel from the main tank
โ€ข new 200 ampโ€ขhr Lithium battery system
โ€ข new 220W portable solar suitcase with 30ft cable
โ€ข new custom dual-shade cell blinds (light-through and total blackout)
โ€ข window frames removed, spray-painted metallic grey and replaced
โ€ข new black hardware everywhere
โ€ข new wireless backup camera (not shown)
โ€ข new, organic foam mattress
โ€ข new ceiling fan

New custom-made trailer for the motorcycle, with:
โ€ข shelves
โ€ข motorcycle chock
โ€ข L-tracks to tie down the motorcycle
โ€ข workbench
โ€ข lithium battery and new LED lighting throughout
โ€ข tool drawers
โ€ข mountain bike rack
โ€ข backup camera
โ€ข about 10 Husky storage bins strapped to the shelves
โ€ข six Wolf Pack FrontRunner containers, mounted under the workbench
โ€ข storage for Gas Pro steak broiler (important!)
โ€ข sound-proofed outside storage bin for portable generator

5 same-key locks from PacLock:
โ€ข three padlocks
โ€ข hitch lock
โ€ข hitch receiver lock

I'm still waiting in Texas for my new vehicle plates (I made mistakes with the applications so I'm re-sending corrected versions) but I've since moved to Lake Conroe just north of Houston as I meander toward New Orleans.

On the road, I installed an outdoor fridge fan to make the refrigeration more efficient (some newer rigs install these at the factory now instead of depending solely on convection) and repaired my trailer electrical connection. I don't know if the fan helps yet but everyone else online says that it certainly will.

I have several projects in front of the air bags but I figure until I head west again where there is more opportunity for boondocking (there is almost no public land suitable for boondocking in Texas, it seems), it feels like the priorities have been correct.

Here are some pics and video of the before and after of the rig:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/LTyfmuj4qG8HLrNMA

bobndot
Explorer II
Explorer II
By the time the OP completes the mods on this quarter of a century class c and rebuilds his garage to accommodate it , i think it would be less expensive to buy a new rv. :B

BruceMc
Explorer III
Explorer III
In addition to installing the airbags to lift the tail a couple inches, here's my solution to our '00 Four Winds 5000 butt dragging:





This resulted in a tiny decrease in clearance, but allowed things to "roll along" instead of digging in:



More projects on our Four Winds 5000.
2016 Forest River Sunseeker 2250SLEC Chevrolet 6.0L