Replacing dual pane with single pane?

[supercub]

Has anyone replace fogged dual pane windows with thicker single pane windows? I have a dual pane that is fogging and just wonder if it's worth the price of replacing it with another dual pane or just put in a single pane? I wonder how much difference their really is between the two in a motorhome?
Brian

[DanTheRVMan]

Trap wrote:

DanTheRVMan wrote:
Fogging is the only real consideration on single vs dual pane windows. So if you are in the cold a lot and can not stand fogging get dual pane.

I know some one will bring up noise and heat/cooling. But windows are so small. Plastic vents are worse. Walls and the front windows are the same.

Too make an analogy it is better to retire with more money than less money, which is easily understood. But how much better is a retirement with a million dollars than a million plus an additional $10,000? If you do not understand the analogy than I also suspect you are not an engineer that has taken numerous thermodynamics courses. While there are advantages to dual pane they are very small and inappropriate for a rolling home imo.

single pane is more than good enough for an rv and they cause a lot less problems.

Well maybe it's because I live far enough north to see the real benefit of dual pane windows, but since having dual pane windows in the last 2 rv's. I will say there is a huge difference when it gets cold and raining. I will never have single pane again.

Trap, please reread my first two sentences

"Fogging is the only real consideration on single vs dual pane windows. So if you are in the cold a lot and can not stand fogging get dual pane."

[Jim]

Uh, here on the forum, it's usually called condensation when there's cold air outside and warm moist air inside the RV and droplets form in the inside of a window. Then, it's called fogging when dual paned windows develop a seal leak between the panes and frame and moisture is drawn inside due to atmospheric pressure changes. I only mention this to prevent confusion that lurkers might have.

Dual paned windows usually come in RVs with what use to be known as the 'Alaska Pak'. That meant different things to different manufacturers, and I'm not positive of all the details, but I do know that up in Fairbanks, Alaska, my neighbor, without it, suffered much more then I did in the early winter cold, down to 20°F. Lots of condensation on their windows while my dual paned windows had none. Their furnace ran continuously, mine at least kicked off every once in a while. Their rig was drafty because of the cold air pouring off the windows, mine was pleasant.

And their rig, the same size and practically the same design as mine, was 10 years newer. Except I have the 'Alaska Pak' while they didn't.

Sure, there may be lots of other factors that accumulate and make some difference, but for me, right next to a 'newer, better' rig then mine and being more comfortable then they were, I'm sold on the dual paned windows. Nothing like direct experience.

[Trap]

DanTheRVMan wrote:
Fogging is the only real consideration on single vs dual pane windows. So if you are in the cold a lot and can not stand fogging get dual pane.

I know some one will bring up noise and heat/cooling. But windows are so small. Plastic vents are worse. Walls and the front windows are the same.

Too make an analogy it is better to retire with more money than less money, which is easily understood. But how much better is a retirement with a million dollars than a million plus an additional $10,000? If you do not understand the analogy than I also suspect you are not an engineer that has taken numerous thermodynamics courses. While there are advantages to dual pane they are very small and inappropriate for a rolling home imo.

single pane is more than good enough for an rv and they cause a lot less problems.

Well maybe it's because I live far enough north to see the real benefit of dual pane windows, but since having dual pane windows in the last 2 rv's. I will say there is a huge difference when it gets cold and raining. I will never have single pane again.

[phnguyk]

dougrainer wrote:

FIRE UP wrote:

dougrainer wrote:
If you have a dual pane and install a single pane, the window will rattle. Doug

Well Sir,

I'll have to disagree with you. And to the OP, YES, YOU CAN REPLACE IT WITH A SINGLE PANE WINDOW/GLASS. I know 'cause we did it. Our '99 Fleetwood Bounder, 34V on the F-53 Chassis and V-10, developed fogging in all four, forward windows. Both the sliders and the stationaries on the passenger and drivers sides. So, I went to a friends glass shop and we discussed changing them out to Single Pane windows. He said: "No problem".

What we did was install "Laminated" glass in place of the Dual pane window glass. The Laminated that we used was equally as thick and, even had the same exact, "built-in" window tint as the rest of the coaches windows. All he had to do was install the correct window channel/butyl rubber that held it in place to the original window frame.

Now, here's the kicker. I was told I'd get some serious wetness and sweating on the inside on that new glass. There was never, ever any sweating or, extra loud noise or, extra heat or cold due to the lack of the insulation factor of the original windows. Nope, never happened! Those new, Laminated glass windows worked flawlessly.

But, here's some advice. The cost was very, very close to the same as it was going to be to purchase new dual pane windows. But, the true benefit was, NEVER TO HAVE THEM FOG AGAIN! Would I do it again, yep, in a heartbeat. Your choice.
Scott

I base my statement on EXPERIANCE with both single and dual pane windows as a TECH that sees all kinds. Single pane windows have a tendency to rattle more than dual pane. I have had LOTS or arguments with various OEM's that install driver and pass side single panes and the customers that complain of rattle. Installing a single pane in the same width as a dual pane will cause MORE rattle/noise unless that single pane makes up the thickness of the dual pane. Dual panes are heavier and fit tighter and hence they do not have as many rattles as single pane windows. Doug

Not a very good TECH if you install glass without the proper sized gasket, that's just not smart. Also it's not the glass rattling it's the screen when air pushes through the thin gasket that allows the windows to slide pass one another. The glass cannot "rattle" as you say, unless the gaskets failed or are failing. Argue all you want you don't make any valid points. So your last sentence is not true, and dual pane's do have more failures. I never had my single panes fog on the inside, or etch on the inside

Btw I'd rather fog I can wipe away, then fog I can't. And i'm in the NE and camp in the winter.

[DanTheRVMan]

Fogging is the only real consideration on single vs dual pane windows. So if you are in the cold a lot and can not stand fogging get dual pane.

I know some one will bring up noise and heat/cooling. But windows are so small. Plastic vents are worse. Walls and the front windows are the same.

Too make an analogy it is better to retire with more money than less money, which is easily understood. But how much better is a retirement with a million dollars than a million plus an additional $10,000? If you do not understand the analogy than I also suspect you are not an engineer that has taken numerous thermodynamics courses. While there are advantages to dual pane they are very small and inappropriate for a rolling home imo.

single pane is more than good enough for an rv and they cause a lot less problems.

[harold1946]

Why not just repair the exhisting window unless it has been etched.
Replacing the seals is not that difficult as a DIY project.
Dave Root RV Glass Repair does exelent work, or he has repair kits with everything need for DIY.
He is located in Bend Oregon. The website is www.daverootrvglassrepair.com

[dougrainer]

FIRE UP wrote:

dougrainer wrote:
If you have a dual pane and install a single pane, the window will rattle. Doug

Well Sir,

I'll have to disagree with you. And to the OP, YES, YOU CAN REPLACE IT WITH A SINGLE PANE WINDOW/GLASS. I know 'cause we did it. Our '99 Fleetwood Bounder, 34V on the F-53 Chassis and V-10, developed fogging in all four, forward windows. Both the sliders and the stationaries on the passenger and drivers sides. So, I went to a friends glass shop and we discussed changing them out to Single Pane windows. He said: "No problem".

What we did was install "Laminated" glass in place of the Dual pane window glass. The Laminated that we used was equally as thick and, even had the same exact, "built-in" window tint as the rest of the coaches windows. All he had to do was install the correct window channel/butyl rubber that held it in place to the original window frame.

Now, here's the kicker. I was told I'd get some serious wetness and sweating on the inside on that new glass. There was never, ever any sweating or, extra loud noise or, extra heat or cold due to the lack of the insulation factor of the original windows. Nope, never happened! Those new, Laminated glass windows worked flawlessly.

But, here's some advice. The cost was very, very close to the same as it was going to be to purchase new dual pane windows. But, the true benefit was, NEVER TO HAVE THEM FOG AGAIN! Would I do it again, yep, in a heartbeat. Your choice.
Scott

I base my statement on EXPERIANCE with both single and dual pane windows as a TECH that sees all kinds. Single pane windows have a tendency to rattle more than dual pane. I have had LOTS or arguments with various OEM's that install driver and pass side single panes and the customers that complain of rattle. Installing a single pane in the same width as a dual pane will cause MORE rattle/noise unless that single pane makes up the thickness of the dual pane. Dual panes are heavier and fit tighter and hence they do not have as many rattles as single pane windows. Doug

[Jim]

The benefits of dual paned windows simply outweigh the occasional problems. Quicker heating/cooling of the interior, less condensation when there's a large differential in inside/outside temp, less noise inside, are all benefits to dual paned windows.

The OP could check on-line for companies that repair the windows, for a price, there are several companies around the country that do that now at a considerable savings over new windows.

And if the OP has an older RV, and is a DIY'er, he could follow my instructions on repairing your own. It's fairly easy and only takes an hour or two.

DIY Dual Paned Window Fog removal...

[rgatijnet1]

2bzy2c wrote:
Agree with the above. Tiffin uses single pane glass, but it is much thicker than your typical single pane glass. No chance for fogging.

Yeah, like your very thick laminated windshield never fogs up. :R

[2bzy2c]

Agree with the above. Tiffin uses single pane glass, but it is much thicker than your typical single pane glass. No chance for fogging.

[FIRE_UP]

dougrainer wrote:
If you have a dual pane and install a single pane, the window will rattle. Doug

Well Sir,

I'll have to disagree with you. And to the OP, YES, YOU CAN REPLACE IT WITH A SINGLE PANE WINDOW/GLASS. I know 'cause we did it. Our '99 Fleetwood Bounder, 34V on the F-53 Chassis and V-10, developed fogging in all four, forward windows. Both the sliders and the stationaries on the passenger and drivers sides. So, I went to a friends glass shop and we discussed changing them out to Single Pane windows. He said: "No problem".

What we did was install "Laminated" glass in place of the Dual pane window glass. The Laminated that we used was equally as thick and, even had the same exact, "built-in" window tint as the rest of the coaches windows. All he had to do was install the correct window channel/butyl rubber that held it in place to the original window frame.

Now, here's the kicker. I was told I'd get some serious wetness and sweating on the inside on that new glass. There was never, ever any sweating or, extra loud noise or, extra heat or cold due to the lack of the insulation factor of the original windows. Nope, never happened! Those new, Laminated glass windows worked flawlessly.

But, here's some advice. The cost was very, very close to the same as it was going to be to purchase new dual pane windows. But, the true benefit was, NEVER TO HAVE THEM FOG AGAIN! Would I do it again, yep, in a heartbeat. Your choice.
Scott

[doxiemom11]

We have dual pane and will never have single pane. All I have to do is compare the amount of condensation on the single pane cab area windows to the dual pane in cold weather and the amount of cold that comes thru the windshield to the dual pane. That convinces me.

[dougrainer]

If you have a dual pane and install a single pane, the window will rattle. Doug

[rgatijnet1]

Go by your local glass shop and check the price to have your window repaired. Dual pane windows are used on a lot of residential properties and most glass shops can replace or repair your windows. You may find that the cost is not that high.
Having had both, I will never have a coach without dual pane windows, for either Summer or Winter travel.