Sound Systems Questions

[bluwtr49]

First off, anything to do with sound systems such as HiFi, Stereo, Surround Sound, and etc has always been a mystery to me. I mean, I can install them, make the work, and etc but the why certain components do what they do has always baffled me.

Lately, I've been playing around with the 2 1/2 Bose systems on the coach and have noticed a discrepancy between the living room and bedroom systems. Both are essentially the same except the living room system also controls (more or less) the 1/2 Bose system in the bays.

Besides the input console, the main difference seems to be the speakers. In the living room I have 5 little speakers that each have two small (~2") square speakers that can be aimed in different directions. The bedroom has 5 smallish speakers about 3" square.

Both room have the same sub-woofer/amplifier called an acustomass and each have an overabundance of power that at 80% volume will shortly turn ones brain into mush.

Now, for some reason the bedroom system when operated at near sysmic activity levels gets tinny at higher frequencies where the living room speakers remain clear. Could that be the difference between the speakers?? I would have thought the larger single speakers would be better than the little dual cube things.

Thanks for you indulgence and appreciate any insight.

[bluwtr49]

Thanks guys, you input has caused to to spend some more time playing with this and looking at options.

Yesterday, just for giggles, I cranked it up so high everything was rather distorted. However, when I went into the bath area it became clear which really caught my attention as it didn't make sense to me. Back into the bedroom and yep distorted. So here I come seeking "CLARITY". Perhaps it's the configuration??

The bedroom it typical MH but there is an island double vanity sitting across the width of the MH effectively forming a central wall with entrances at each end...say 3' or so wide. Is it possibly the sound wave are rattling around in the bedroom like a box full of BB's and than forced into a more coherent pattern as it exits this box.

As far as the speakers go, The little double cube types are readily available on Ebay so I might pick up 5. If nothing else they will look a lot better. I'm sure my hearing has also lost high frequency sensitivity as well.

Thanks again for you input.

[katoomer]

How long has this been an annoyance? Maybe your hearing is changing also. As we age higher frequencies are the first to go.
You need some waterproof headphones so you can rock out in the shower!

[bluwtr49]

I suspect that when they built our coach in 2002 that the whole 5.1 surround sound may not have been all that prevalent in motorhomes. The bedroom entertainment option, which consisted of a 40" plasma TV, custom cabinetry, associated video equipment, separate sat receiver, and the Bose system was a frightfully expensive option. Bose actually worked with Beaver in those years and did the system design.

Yes we have mirrored closet doors and I believe they would cause distortion but remember the issue I'm having is only at volume levels that normal people could not tolerate...at least for very long, but great in the shower. Amazingly, you can hear nothing outside the coach.

[JimM68]

There are people who are bose fans, and people who are not.
Bose is a pricey solution, and some think they are getting a good deal to pay $300 for a panasonic...

They can have it, I'm a Bose fan.

I think what you have in the bedroom is just too much for the room size.

We use bose's "computer speakers" in our bedroom, they work great, sound great, and do not overpower the room, although they do overpower the wife.

I haven't redone the front yet...

In the s@B's, we had a really old lifestyle 25...
It could easily overpower a 25 by 55 by 28 foot tall room.

My favorite was my GS123. How they got that kind of sound out of 2 (2 speaker) modules and the acoustimass is beyond me. The hard drive was way nice. If only it had a bluray player.

[katoomer]

Don't forget that room acoustics play a big part in the sound. Does your bedroom have mirrored closet doors? Glass is terrible for acoustics. You could always swap out the Bose speakers for something else.
They are just a speaker. I swapped out the tiny 50 cent speakers in our Newmar for some higher end
Klipsch in -ceiling speakers as part of my entire sound system upgrade. Lots of room in a motorhome ceiling for proper speakers. Even ran better speaker wire. It baffles me why they put 5 channel (surround sound) in the bedroom. Rear channels only work well when speakers are behind the listener. Kinda hard to do in a bedroom. Even living area in a coach is not a good environment for 5 channel. Music always sounds better in 2 channel. I won't enter the Bose debate as I'm one of those weirdo Audiophile guys that
spends far too much money on audio equipment

[bluwtr49]

You hit the nail on the head with you explanation of the Bose approach. If I had a lot of adjustments that would be ungood. The Bose makes great sound (to me) and the only adjustment I made was to decrease the Bass so TV voices are not so muddy.

The 50 in the living room is our primary system but the bedroom one is great to crank up the volume and have a shower sing-a-long with Patsy Cline, Dolly Parton, or Johnny Cash. Gotta love Dish music selections.

The bay speakers are self powered and would entertain most of the RV park if so desired

[PUCampin]

If I came across a bit snarky it was not intentional. There is compromise in everything, the lifestyle systems trade size for loudness and accurate response. Installed in a coach is the perfect application for these systems, and Bose does squeeze an awful lot out of their size with sound shaping and such, but even Bose can't rewrite physics :), drivers of a certain size can only displace a certain amount of air, and small enclosures will resonate in certain ways. That is what you ran into with the single cubes. At that point the sound becomes compressed, and if bass module still has some volume left it will start over riding the wide range drivers.

From what I can tell the main difference between the Lifestyle 8 and 50 is the single vs dual cubes, the bass module looks the same. If you primarily use your bedroom system and have the mounting locations you could try swapping the single and dual cubes. Or since the front channels are used the most, swap the 2 single front left and right with the dual surround channels giving dual cubes for the front on both systems, and singles for surround on both. You could also hunt Craig's List or ebay for a set of dual cubes.

You may already know, the reason you can't use the dish remote to control the Bose system is because the lifestyle systems us RF (Radio Frequency) instead of IR (Infra Red) The advantage is RF can be used anywhere and does not have to be pointed at the control box, which leads to a more positive and user friendly experience. Downside is you have to use the provided remote. I have read the latest versions of the lifestyle systems now have both RF and IR to allow use of universal remotes.

A lot of the disdain I see for Bose comes mainly from the price to performance aspect, you can buy a system that out performs for less money. However as someone who loves his iPhone, I see both sides. I am an audio junky, I love spending time tweaking my equipment, listening to different speakers, different DACs listening for nuances in recordings etc., so it is easy for me to say "XYZ receiver and speakers is better and cost less" (and it will take you a month to configure!) When it comes to my iPhone, I like the style, the simplicity, and the fact that it just works. I don't want to have to mess with it. Some of my friends like to tinker with their phones and operating systems, and I hear about how apple is a follower, droid is faster, they have an sd slot yada yada, but I like the overall experience that apple provides with the iPhone. What many Bose detractors don't realize is that is the way I see my iPhone is the same way most of the public sees Bose. They like the style, simplicity, and user friendliness. They don't want to have to mess with things, they just want it to work, and have the company stand behind it.

[bluwtr49]

Thanks for the replies. I now have a better understanding of what is going on (I Think). Both of my systems are the older Lifestyle type, front is a 50, bedroom is an 8, that the bays are ????.

I have heard that Bose systems have their detractors but...to an untrained ear, listening to Dish Country Gold and movies they sure seem like good systems. To bad I can't get the volume to pair with the Dish remote, that would have been really great.

[PUCampin]

Short answer is I believe the single and twin cubes use the same wide range driver, so 2 vs 1 will be able to go louder before the driver bottoms out. You can only get so much out of a 2.5" driver after all. It is great for quiet and casual listening but when you crank it physics come in to play. There are no user adjustments on the Bose equipment, any equalization is handled internally. A major part of Bose design philosophy is to keep the interphase as simple as possible.

In addition you may be hearing the hole in the lower midrange the acoustimass systems are known for which occurs because the bass module is a bandpass design and doesn't go very high while the 2.5" wide range drivers can't reach low enough to overlap the crossover point. The wide range drivers also have a dramatic peak around 5kHz which will be emphasized when cranked and contribute to the tinny tone.

[10forty2]

There could be an adjustment that you have not found yet....Tone/Equalizer.... for the bedroom speakers. I am not familiar with this particular system, but Bose is notorious for using reflected as well as direct sound to enhance the listening experience. A different setup, (size of room, wall placement as well as object placement, speaker angle, etc.) will produce different sound and is usually compensated for by adjusting the tonal quality as well as any delays that the system might offer. Again, I'm not familiar with that particular system, but the higher end stuff usually has adjustments to compensate for room and speaker-placement differences. Just some thoughts.....