Spartan Factory Service - First visit (Long read)

[mtrumpet]

We were up at the Spartan chassis facility in Charlotte, MI last week. Wish that I could say the experience was enjoyable, but I have mixed feelings about the entire visit.

The initial intent was to get my worn Ball Joints replaced and possibly get a couple of other things done while there including their 100 point chassis inspection. I was looking forward to taking my coach there for service – by the actual company the built the chassis. After all, how much better can you get to have the original builder work on your chassis?

We had a pre-arranged appointment for Monday, July 27th, which was made back in May. The appointment confirmation stated that we were to arrive Sunday night and stay in their Parking/Staging area (50 amp power provided for each coach). The instructions said that we were to have our coach ready to be picked up and go in for service promptly at 7am. That meant, everything unplugged, slides in, jacks up and coach aired up and ready to go. There were approximately six other coaches scheduled for service that Monday as well. At 7am that morning, we were ready as instructed. The instructions also said that we would be in at 7am and depending upon the work to be done, the coach would be brought out at approx 3:15 that day and possible completed.

At 7am, I proceeded to the office with the other coach owners. We had to check in with the service department and receive our service tag/number for our coach. We didn’t get checked in until approximately 8:15. By then, two of the coaches had been taken into the service bays. Ours was not one of them. The rest of us had to sit around and wait. (They do have a very nice, comfortable customer lounge though.) There was no indication as to how they chose who’s coach went in first. Eventually, our coach got taken in at 10 minutes to noon – almost five hours later from the initial 7am call time.

The bad thing here was lack of communication from the service office. We were told that when our coach goes in, they will call us into the office sometime afterward and review everything that they find, and finalize and agree upon what needs to be done. We were all sitting around waiting, without any idea of what to do in the meantime? No idea as to how long the inspection takes? Is it an hour? Two hours? Do we have time to go get lunch? Should we remain on premises so that we’ll be there so that when they come in to review the initial inspection? All the service office would basically say is that they will call us in when the inspections had been completed. Therefore, we all just hung around. Fortunately, we were there with a great bunch of fellow RV’rs, so that made the waiting much easier.

We didn’t get called in until approximately 3:15 that afternoon. In addition to the Ball Joints, I was told that I needed Tie Rod ends (which I suspected as well). No problem. I also asked them to service the transmission (change fluid and filters), and flush the cooling system and replace the coolant and filter. I also asked them to replace the dessicant filter on the air system as long as they were under there. Fine. No problem.

In reviewing the 100 point inspection, they reported that I had a cracked turbo tube, A Class 1 leak of the outer seal on the transmission output shaft, a cracked fan blade on the cooling fan and a couple of other small items. I said, “show me”. So they did. They took me out to the service building and let me down into the service pit with the mechanic. The leak in the tranny shaft seal turned out to be nothing of any concern – barely at Class 1 which is barely a weep at best. The crack in the fan blade was only about 3/8” long in the center of the end of one of the blades – it didn’t quite go through the blade. No concern for me there (a little super glue will take care of that). However, there indeed was a hole in the turbo tube which most definitely needed to be replaced, so I gave to go ahead with that.

They also said that there was no sight glass in my coolant surge tank, but only a plug. They would replace the plug with the screw-in sight glass plug – for $50.00! I told them to leave the plug in. I had also brought along two new tires to put on the front and asked about having them put on. They wanted $100 each to mount the new tires. My truck tire guy here in town does them for me for $30.00 each (includes EQUAL). I took the new tires home with me. One of the other coach owners there with us wanted to get his coach weighed (which they offered to me as well). They wanted $55.00 to weigh the coach! You can get your coach weighed at most CAT Scales for about $15.00.

Overall, the facility itself is awesome, the mechanics are very knowledgeable (the mechanic spent time with each customer when their coach repairs were completed). The people in the service office are pretty nice folks too. However, in my opinion, their pricing is way over the top! Also, they really need to get a better handle on their scheduling and communicating (status update) with the customers. You just can’t have folks waiting around for hours on end without giving them some idea of what is going on with their coach. I feel sorry for anyone who goes in without any mechanical knowledge of their coach and chassis. They had better be ready to open their wallet!

Summary of everything that I had done to my coach:
> 100 point chassis inspection
> Ball Joints and Tie Rod ends (includes Ride Height check & adjust and Wheel Alignment)
> Replace Turbo tube
> Transmission Service – new fluid (Dexron)& Filters
> Coolant Service – Flush and replace with standard coolant and filter
> Change Dessicant Filter on Air Dryer
> Changed Differential Oil

TOTAL w/tax = $4138.

I feel that price is high for what I had done. Yes? No?

[mtrumpet]

FWIW, I do not at all recall being given pricing for the service items - tranny, coolant, differential oil change, Dessicant filter - only the big ticket items like the front end work and the turbo tube change after they completed the 100 point inspection. If so, I may have scratched a couple of those service items, which I'm capable of doing on my own if I have to. I just figured, as long as I was there, I might as well have them do it. Which is fine, I have no problem with any of that.

Now that I have a more thorough explanation and understanding (from Doug and a few others) of how the labor rates work in some facilities, I'm fine with that. To be clear, when all was said and done, I have absolutely no complaint with the actual work that was performed on my coach. Granted, the bill was higher than than I anticipated, but I now know what to be more aware of the next time around. As far as I'm concerned, the forum did what it was intended for - information.

Thanks to those who took the time to give informative feedback.

[dougrainer]

Shot-N-Az wrote:

Deano56 wrote:
Unfortunately businesses anymore charge what people are willing to pay, not whats really fair all the way around.

I find this post odd coming from someone who owned or owns a business. Is this not the very definition of fair?

Some, people want HIGH wages or prices for their wares because THEY deserve it. But, are critical on the purchases they make, they feel they know what a fair profit is on everything. Why is it OK to make 300% to 400% profit on your family home after a few years, but NOT OK when you try to purchase your next home???? Doug

[Shot-N-Az]

Deano56 wrote:
Unfortunately businesses anymore charge what people are willing to pay, not whats really fair all the way around.

I find this post odd coming from someone who owned or owns a business. Is this not the very definition of fair?

[Mr_Mark1]

Deano56 wrote:
i always find it amusing when people want to defend businesses high prices on forums. Makes me think thy are business owners themselves or they have endless funds. Unfortunately businesses anymore charge what people are willing to pay, not whats really fair all the way around. I have had my own company (small) and I see some will mark up the product 500% and get away with it. It's not right but nothing anyone can do about it but pay and make your voice heard, or shop elsewhere. There are plenty of companies out there that would be glad to have your business. I still think the mentality out there is if you have money to buy a motorhome, then you must be rich and have money to pay inflated prices. I like to enjoy the things that we have worked hard for and do not like to be taken advantage of at the garage "IF" I need to go, usually I fix myself

I don't think anybody is defending the costs per se. It's nice to see that labor costs explained. Nobody wants to over-pay.

The price the OP paid does seem rather high. But, I can tell you, having the job done right the first time is worth every penny. The OP was given prices of certain procedures and he gave the choices of what he wanted. The quality of the work is so important, the price is really secondary but still important.

MM.

On edit: Doug's post above was not there when I posted mine. Looks like I almost repeated what he said although he was more thorough.

[dougrainer]

Deano56 wrote:
i always find it amusing when people want to defend businesses high prices on forums. Makes me think thy are business owners themselves or they have endless funds. Unfortunately businesses anymore charge what people are willing to pay, not whats really fair all the way around. I have had my own company (small) and I see some will mark up the product 500% and get away with it. It's not right but nothing anyone can do about it but pay and make your voice heard, or shop elsewhere. There are plenty of companies out there that would be glad to have your business. I still think the mentality out there is if you have money to buy a motorhome, then you must be rich and have money to pay inflated prices. I like to enjoy the things that we have worked hard for and do not like to be taken advantage of at the garage "IF" I need to go, usually I fix myself

I think you have missed the point. I don't think anybody is "defending" the Supposed High prices. This IS the USA. The OP was not forced to take his RV to the factory service center. He did so, because he felt it would be the BEST of any possible service, which he acknowledges. He was just shocked at the TOTAL bill. Remember, he was advised about the various costs and he approved it. While you may think he was ripped off, that Service center obviously has enough business that hundreds/thousands of customers believe they are the best option or they would not go there. For some, TIME is important to them, and The Spartan facility has the parts and skilled labor to expedite all the repairs. You may have to wait days/weeks to get all the required service at an independent shop or even have to go to multiple shops to get all the work you need done. Plus, have to wait for parts to be ordered and shipped in. Remember also, the FRONT of the plane gets there at the same time as the REAR of the Plane. For some, they do not mind spending extra hundreds or thousands extra for Business Class or FIRST Class. That is THEIR choice. I personally think they are out of their mind for spending that kind of extra money, but it IS their money and they can spend it like they want. Doug

[Deano56]

i always find it amusing when people want to defend businesses high prices on forums. Makes me think thy are business owners themselves or they have endless funds. Unfortunately businesses anymore charge what people are willing to pay, not whats really fair all the way around. I have had my own company (small) and I see some will mark up the product 500% and get away with it. It's not right but nothing anyone can do about it but pay and make your voice heard, or shop elsewhere. There are plenty of companies out there that would be glad to have your business. I still think the mentality out there is if you have money to buy a motorhome, then you must be rich and have money to pay inflated prices. I like to enjoy the things that we have worked hard for and do not like to be taken advantage of at the garage "IF" I need to go, usually I fix myself

[mtrumpet]

carringb wrote:
The "super-glue" repair on the fan blade sure make me nervous. With all the heat back there, and not known the actual plastic compound, I would not count on glue doing a thing to prevent it from breaking. Once it breaks, if the blade doesn't cause damage, the our-of-balance fan will eventually fatigue and cause the shaft to break, at which point it flies through the radiator (learned this one the hard way, BTW).

Actually, I was just using "Super Glue" as a generic term. We have a product here at work that I will use. Has a very high heat rating anyway.

[carringb]

The "super-glue" repair on the fan blade sure make me nervous. With all the heat back there, and not known the actual plastic compound, I would not count on glue doing a thing to prevent it from breaking. Once it breaks, if the blade doesn't cause damage, the our-of-balance fan will eventually fatigue and cause the shaft to break, at which point it flies through the radiator (learned this one the hard way, BTW).

[mtrumpet]

That certainly explains my confusion of the labor charges. Thanks!

[johnsonbert]

Same as what Doug said, many of the tasks they performed were on a flat rate price like the ride height and alignment, both required if they are changing the ball-joints. We had much of that same work done on our Tradition several years ago. They allowed us to purchase the ball-joints from the original manufacturer at their cost ahead of time and we just paid labor. In the inspection, they found several other things wrong and we had several but not all of those fixed. Overall, it was a very good experience but rather costly, like you experienced. They did explain all work to be done and supplied a cost estimate up front, that is required in Michigan. I try to do much of my own work, but would have gone back there if there was work specific to there chassis that I could not do. There Techs were great to deal with. Hope this may help, Happy Trails Bert

[Mr_Mark1]

dougrainer wrote:

mrekim wrote:

mtrumpet wrote:

Between the two days of service, the coach was only in the service bay for a total of 16 service hours. So, my problem is how is it I'm being charged for 19-1/2 hours? - The coach wasn't even IN the service building for a total of 19-1/2 hours over the two days.

I see two possibilities.

One is that for some portion of the work there were two people working on the coach. So you would get billed $220 per hour for some portion of the bay time.

The other is that they could be charging a flat rate for each task and the mechanic made good time.

Bingo, The Service Center has a Flat rate for almost all operations and with the work you had done the total of the Flat rate came to 19.5 hours. A GOOD mechanic, especially at a Factory service center with the correct tools and parts on hand can easily BEAT the Flat Rate time. Which he obviously did. Also, if asked, they will provide you with the Flat Rate times for each job they did. Also, ANYTIME before the repair you can ask, Flat Rate or straight time for jobs you want done. They will explain that the job has a hourly Flat Rate time that you pay for. If the job gets done UNDER that time, the facility and the Mechanic make good money. IF the job takes longer, then YOU have come out ahead. Doug

Doug, thank you for explaining that, it makes total sense. If techs can do the job faster than normal, I'm all for it. I don't mind paying for factory expertise if it is done correctly. Sometimes trying to 'cheap-out' can be very expensive.

MM.

[wla7]

I have been to the Spartan Service Center at least four times, maybe more. In my experience, I have always been given an estimate of the charges before the work begins. And, I have to sign and to acknowledge the estimate and approve the work. Apparently, they did this with your tires and the coolant sight glass as you declined these items. Also, the written instructions that Spartan sent explains that I must first check in, which takes some time. The instructions explain that you can arrive the day before and complete the check-in, which I normally do. The Point Inspection (I thought it was 50 or 47 Point) is just that, to determine if anything needs replaced or repaired. Well, any discovered replacement or repairs take additional time and sometimes the previous day's work carries over and you may not get into the service bay first thing in the am. You certainly do not get into the service bay before you check-in. I understood all of this from the instructions I received. I believe the Spartan technicians are very knowledgeable when it comes to my motorhome chassis. They check things that a local garage or truck stop does not, ie. "Ride Height". As for me, I appreciate the quality of service and peace of mind of having expert service. I will continue to use Spartan Service whenever I can. Oh, the Spartan scale gave me six (6) weights, at each tire(s) location, in addition to the axle weights. The CAT scale does not do this.

[fourmat]

mtrumpet wrote:

mrekim wrote:

mtrumpet wrote:

> 100 point chassis inspection
> Ball Joints and Tie Rod ends (includes Ride Height check & adjust and Wheel Alignment)
> Replace Turbo tube
> Transmission Service – new fluid (Dexron)& Filters
> Coolant Service – Flush and replace with standard coolant and filter
> Change Dessicant Filter on Air Dryer

TOTAL w/tax = $4138.

I usually break down the price into labor and parts and then see if it seems sane. Does the number of hours they charged you for seem reasonable and was the coach being worked on for about that much time?

If you break down the parts costs, are they getting outrageous prices for things?

Here's how it breaks down. This is right of off the invoice...
Labor = $ 2146.50 ($110.00/hr = 19-1/2 hrs.)*
Parts = $ 1697.03
Shop Supplies = $ 160.99
Hazard $ site fee = $ 22.50
Tax = $ 111.48
===========================
TOTAL = $4138.49

*LABOR HOURS:
MONDAY: My coach was taken into the service bay at 11:50am on Monday, and brought out at approximately 5:15pm (let's say, 5:30) That's 5-1/2 hours.

TUESDAY: Coach was taken into to the service bay at 7:00am and was brought out (completed) at approximately 6:00pm. Take away 1/2 hr for lunch for the tech, and that's 10-1/2 hrs.

Between the two days of service, the coach was only in the service bay for a total of 16 service hours. So, my problem is how is it I'm being charged for 19-1/2 hours? - The coach wasn't even IN the service building for a total of 19-1/2 hours over the two days.

If you could see the pages from the invoice, everything is listed in a very confusing manner, with each page a completely different layout from each other.

Make no mistake, I'm not at all complaining about the actual service and repairs that were done. They were all completed well to my satisfaction, and I don't have a problem with the hourly Labor Rate of $110.00, which is pretty much the norm for service on these coaches. My problem is with the excess(Labor) charges that seemed to have made their way into the billing.

$385.00 in un-understood Labor charges - basically, my R/T fuel bill for the trip there.

Its called flat rate they bill you book time to r and r parts Mechanics job is to beat that time that's how they make money. If book says 1 hour and it takes him 1.5 hours he only gets paid for an hour if he can do it in .7 he still gets paid 1 hour. If he does it incorrectly and it comes back he gets paid nothing for the additional time. This is the same way most truck and auto dealers work

[dougrainer]

mrekim wrote:

mtrumpet wrote:

Between the two days of service, the coach was only in the service bay for a total of 16 service hours. So, my problem is how is it I'm being charged for 19-1/2 hours? - The coach wasn't even IN the service building for a total of 19-1/2 hours over the two days.

I see two possibilities.

One is that for some portion of the work there were two people working on the coach. So you would get billed $220 per hour for some portion of the bay time.

The other is that they could be charging a flat rate for each task and the mechanic made good time.

Bingo, The Service Center has a Flat rate for almost all operations and with the work you had done the total of the Flat rate came to 19.5 hours. A GOOD mechanic, especially at a Factory service center with the correct tools and parts on hand can easily BEAT the Flat Rate time. Which he obviously did. Also, if asked, they will provide you with the Flat Rate times for each job they did. Also, ANYTIME before the repair you can ask, Flat Rate or straight time for jobs you want done. They will explain that the job has a hourly Flat Rate time that you pay for. If the job gets done UNDER that time, the facility and the Mechanic make good money. IF the job takes longer, then YOU have come out ahead. Doug