Texas Toll Roads

ferndaleflyer wrote:
The only people that support toll roads are bureaucrats, politicions, the wealthy, and idiots. But those that oppose them just can't seem to be heard.

I am not a bureaucrat or a politician, nor am I particularly wealthy so I must be an idiot!

I love toll roads, they leave more room for me on the old roads they are built to bypass. In NY US 20 is much easier to drive without the trucks taking the parallel toll road - I 90, for example. In Texas I do not need to drive 130 as I won't do 85 mph under any conditions and I 35 goes where I want to go. Through Chicago is another story, I will drive 150 miles out of my way to avoid going through there. Even in Canada, the 407 ETR keeps the people in a hurry to get to T out of my way while I cruise the QEW at a more leisurely pace. Its all a matter of perspective :)

The only people that support toll roads are bureaucrats, politicions, the wealthy, and idiots. But those that oppose them just can't seem to be heard.

down home wrote:
In Tn we have no toll roads. It is going to stay that way if I can help it.

Not entirely true. While there are no CURRENT toll roads in the Volunteer State, TDOT has already stated the new I-69 corridor being constructed in West Tennessee can only be built quickly if it is made a toll road. Tennessee has no road debt, but some of the interstate highways in the state are obsolete and there is no money in the state coffers to build new ones. Look how long it took for State Road 840 to be built around Nashville. It is an interstate highway in every way except the name, as the state did not want to go through the decades long environmental vetting process to have the route declared INTERSTATE 840.

The neighboring states of Georgia and North Carolina do have toll roads, and I am glad the toll facilities take my Florida SunPass. I keep that current for the trips down to see family and friends in the Sunshine State.

down home wrote:
In Tn we have no toll roads. It is going to stay that way if I can help it.
Indiana and other places sold their toll roads or leased them to Foreign Investors. Taxpayers pay for their construction.
They had meetings(not the right word) in Spain and elsewhere on investing or buying US Toll roads etc. Thirty years ago.
Don't know the situation in Texas but it is not good for the Citizens. I hope a move is made again in a friendlier Congress to stop all Tolling of roads in the US. From what I've seen, in Indiana and some other places they are the worse roads around, after a few years with little repair because profits come before upkeep just like slumlords everywhere.

The new toll roads are paid for in a very shady way in my opinion. The contracts are issued to consortium's, usually consisting of a US company and a foreign partner. Here in Texas, the main partners on TX 130 are Zachary Construction from the US and Cintra from Spain.

The contracts usually run for something like 30 years and the consortium builds the roads and collects the tolls. The initial construction is funded via bonds and the consortium is guaranteed a fixed return.

There are usually stipulations that the governments that have jurisdiction over the area, federal, state and local, cannot build competing roads and sometimes have to actually add impediments (stop lights) to traffic on roads that already exist and might compete with the toll road.

TX 130 has not generated the revenue forecast by about 60% despite incentives like the 85 mph speed limit and discount rates for 18-wheelers. Here's an excerpt from the Department of Transportation concerning the project:

"Toll revenues generated on SH 130 Segments 5-6 since it opened in October 2012 have fallen well short of expectations, with revenue levels more than 60 percent below the original forecast for the highway. As a result, the concessionaire has fully drawn down the bank liquidity facility, and ratings on the outstanding debt for the project (including the bank debt and the TIFIA loan) have been downgraded to Caa3 by Moody’s. The concession company negotiated with its senior bank lenders to largely postpone its June 2014 interest payment to January 2016, avoiding a legal default; however, it appears likely that financial restructuring of the project will ultimately be required. - See more at: https://www.transportation.gov/policy-initiatives/build-america/sh-130-segments-5-6-austin-tx#sthash.mwZlQZ25.dpuf"

The contract refers to the partners that built and run the toll road "concessionaires". The term "financial restructuring" is troubling. What it really means is that taxpayers are going to have to make up the shortfall to the consortium.

I think "down home" is on to something by using the metaphor of various government agencies that tend to our over priced and poorly cared for toll roads as "Slumlords". Great way of describing it!

In Tn we have no toll roads. It is going to stay that way if I can help it.
Indiana and other places sold their toll roads or leased them to Foreign Investors. Taxpayers pay for their construction.
They had meetings(not the right word) in Spain and elsewhere on investing or buying US Toll roads etc. Thirty years ago.
Don't know the situation in Texas but it is not good for the Citizens. I hope a move is made again in a friendlier Congress to stop all Tolling of roads in the US. From what I've seen, in Indiana and some other places they are the worse roads around, after a few years with little repair because profits come before upkeep just like slumlords everywhere.

lonewolf80 wrote:
xctraveler, I don't think the proper term is "complaining" about tolls when they represent just another set of false promises (lies?)from government officials, especially a high tax state such as New York. I'm sure you being from California you too are quite used to it.

I am very aware of the two lane alternatives to head East or West, or the very nice North South routes such as the 390 to 86 which is a popular route to the New York City area. In addition Rts. 81 or 87 will take you to the St. Lawrence Seaway area of NY or the vast state parkland of the Adirondack Mountain areas best known by Lake Placid. In fact on this forum and others when I read of newbies joining the lifestyle I will welcome them to the forum and point out to enjoy the "two lane" as much as possible to take in all of the beauty and charm we are so fortunate to have in the country. Unfortunately many of us are not retired and we are left to long weekend get aways or one or two nice road trips per year. That of course leaves us no choice most times being at the governments mercy and getting banged by tolls, just another form of taxation.

Actually DW and I were both born in Rochester NY and lived there all out lives until about three years ago - still have an apartment there. TX is Domicile and CA is just camping. I am choosing to not pay NY anymore income tax and frankly avoiding what was their devastating Estate Tax when we left.

Toll roads are a choice in many cases. I pay then for the convenience of shorter distance or quicker time. Some places they are unavoidable, usually bridges. Taking Interstates is the equivalent of taking a plane, you don't get to really see the country you are passing through.

You will have fun time finding all the lyrics and the spoken word part is priceless if you find it.. But there is a song.. Wade in the Menus. Tune is Wade in the Water.. I did the first verse for a couple of our choir members Sunday.

Wade in the Menus
Wade in the Menus people
Wade in the Menus
You're gonna have to wade through the menus.

if you can find it, that should be enough.. The spoken word part has been published seperately as well

Thank you for calling 9-1-1, Your call is important to us..........

xctraveler, I don't think the proper term is "complaining" about tolls when they represent just another set of false promises (lies?)from government officials, especially a high tax state such as New York. I'm sure you being from California you too are quite used to it.

I am very aware of the two lane alternatives to head East or West, or the very nice North South routes such as the 390 to 86 which is a popular route to the New York City area. In addition Rts. 81 or 87 will take you to the St. Lawrence Seaway area of NY or the vast state parkland of the Adirondack Mountain areas best known by Lake Placid. In fact on this forum and others when I read of newbies joining the lifestyle I will welcome them to the forum and point out to enjoy the "two lane" as much as possible to take in all of the beauty and charm we are so fortunate to have in the country. Unfortunately many of us are not retired and we are left to long weekend get aways or one or two nice road trips per year. That of course leaves us no choice most times being at the governments mercy and getting banged by tolls, just another form of taxation.

For those in NY complaining about getting around high tolls. There are many roads that provide toll free travel if you are relaxed and willing to travel a little slower.

From the PA border to Albany, take US, it is prettier than the Tway and about the same distance. The limit is 55 and there are many wonderful small towns along the way.

From NYC to the west try I84 through PA then pick up I86 through to US 20 west of Buffalo.

There are many other toll free routes in this country it you are willing to drive two lane roads and pass through the fascinating small towns that make up this country.