Truck Camper Owner Considering Super C - Questions

[usmcshepherd]

Hello all,

I've been a member for over 6 years but have always been on the Truck Camper part of this site as we have owned 3 TCs over the years. That said we are considering getting a Super C (Jayco Seneca or similar type unit with bunks) so we could travel longer and in greater comfort especially for the kids. We've looked at Class A's but I keep going back to the Super C/ M2 chassis. That said we've never had one so I have a few questions I thought I might be able to get some questions too from the experts here:

1. Is it possible to tow a half ton pickup? (We have a beautiful new Tundra that would make a great run around especially for my family anyway!)
2. If you can tow a half ton pickup would it be best to tow it directly off the Super C or carrying it on a trailer? (My initial thought would be I would rather put the Tundra on a trailer vice pulling it directly so as to save wear and tear on the truck).
3. Does anyone see the benefit to installing solar panels on the roof of a Super C since you have a 8k generator? (We currently have two panels on our TC and love it but I am seeing more and more of these units as having induction ranges which I would assume would require shore power or generator so not sure how valuable solar would be).
4. How do these units drive compared to class As? Most people drive Class A's in this range so it leaves me wondering why the Super C over the same sized class A.

Thanks for any and all help.
MGuns

[RE_Todd]

Hank, I didn't check the rest of the thread, but air brakes are the exception, not the standard for Super C's.

Hank85713 wrote:
remember that most of the supers are diesel and they run AIR BRAKE systems and these are not cheap to maintain when needed. Yes many DP's use air brakes and they are probably poorly maintained as well. Minimum costs for a NEW super is around $200K, even used are expensive. Now with all that said they are nice, but its the extra $$ to purchase and maintain that creates questions. Look at a class c like the Melbourne by jayco, they have halway bunks if that is really what ya want. ALso the melborne is setup pretty nice, was looking at them before we got our winnebago aspect.

[Explorer1016]

My insurance cost is $1580/year through Progressive. I change my own engine oil and run Amsoil full diesel synthetic so it is expensive.
I perform all of my own maintenance so I have full knowledge of what is happening.

Fuel filters are extremely important on a diesel so I change mine everything time I change engine oil. My brakes are huge, if I remember correctly, I have 12" diameter rotors front and rear. So advantages of a Super C verses a Class A is typically a stronger chassis and components as I mentioned in an earlier post

To clearify the chassis comments, The same sized Super C verses the Class A chassis will be heavier. This formula changes when you get into the high end large class A buses but the price of a 40' class A is almost unlimited.

[Explorer1016]

Hank85713 wrote:
remember that most of the supers are diesel and they run AIR BRAKE systems and these are not cheap to maintain when needed. Yes many DP's use air brakes and they are probably poorly maintained as well. Minimum costs for a NEW super is around $200K, even used are expensive. Now with all that said they are nice, but its the extra $$ to purchase and maintain that creates questions. Look at a class c like the Melbourne by jayco, they have halway bunks if that is really what ya want. ALso the melborne is setup pretty nice, was looking at them before we got our winnebago aspect.

Hello Hank

I looked at a new Jayco Seneca on the Freightliner M2 Heavy Chassis last week in Indianapolis and the actual asking price was $168,000. Nexus make a nice Super C on the Navistar TeraStar and DuraStar chassis that can be purchased starting around $130,000, Thor is selling a Super C on the Ford F-550 chassis for about $130,000, DynaMax has the new Isata 5 on the Ram 5500 loaded for about $140,000.

So, yes their are Super C units in the much higher price ranges but you can find nice Super C's well under the $200,000 threshold. The nice thing about any Super C is typically they are on a diesel platform which gives you larger everything (brakes, tranny, horsepower, etc) and the tow capacity is typically 10,000# and up.

The older Seneca's built on the Chevy Kodiak platform only had about 7500# tow rating but I believe that was due to the smaller Allison 1000 transmission. Most new Super C's utilizing the Allison trany are moving up to the 2000 or 3000 series transmissions.

The units I mention about have hydo boost brake systems except for the M2 Freightliner (and possibly the Navistar DuraMax) The TeraStar, Ram 5500 and F-550 chassis all utilize hydroboost. I have the 08 version of the F550 and it rides great, lots of horsepower, my chassis has the high turning ration Dana 60 front drive axle (yes, my RV is 4 wheel drive) so my rig is extremely agile and easy to maneuver.

[RichNewcome]

1. Insurance costs on a Super C?
Mine is about $1,000/yr with Progressive.

2. Maintenance cost on a Super C?
This depends a lot on how much you do yourself. Routine maintenance is mainly oil change and lube yearly. I have read that Speedco charges about $300. With a Super C you should have a lot more options for servicing since it is on a chassis that is accessible and familiar to many truck service facilities. Many other maintenance items are on a 2-3 year or longer basis. Tires are a big item every 6 years or so, but you can plan for that.

3. Licensing costs on a Super C?
The biggest hit comes at the time of purchase and depends on where you are located. I got this from the Colorado DMV website.

•License fee – Based upon your vehicle's weight, purchase date and taxable value.
•Sales tax – Based on your vehicle's net purchase price.
•Ownership tax – This is a personal property tax based on the worth of your vehicle when it was brand new.

Personally, I think the biggest expense is depreciation. Especially early on, when you figure how much less your RV is worth each year, some of the other costs seem small. Each of us have to do a cost/benefit analysis where the benefit is primarily memories. I wish you luck with your decision.

[usmcshepherd]

Richnewcome...thanks for the great thoughts. As we kick this around we are also simultaneously thinking about going on the road full time or at least 8-10 months of the year. We want to put ourselves in the best position to do that by getting some of these big decisions figured out now.

I like the convenience of the wife being able to get going down the road to take care of whatever without having to stop. I also like being able to pull over when traveling and not having to get out of the rig to open it up and use everything. One thing no one has mentioned is how uncomfortable a TT/TC/5er is during the summer when traveling and you stop to get in it and have lunch or something (it's like an over!! Makes me think I'm back in Iraq!).

We've also discussed keeping our current setup and just adding and 5er so we'd have both and we'd just take the one that best suits where we are going. So a couple additional questions for super C owners (I know answer will very but just ballpark it so I have an idea). These are all things that I don't really deal with at the moment!
1. Insurance costs on a Super C?
2. Maintenance cost on a Super C?
3. Licensing costs on a Super C?

[RichNewcome]

usmcshepherd

You ask why most people prefer a Class A over a Super C of similar size. I had a smaller (33')DP and traded for a similar sized Super C Nexus 32SC. Like most comparisons there are trade-offs. For me the Super C pros are;
- A massive engine and body structure in front of me instead of a short area of fiberglass
- Less worry about a flying stone hitting a huge windshield (happened a couple of times)
- Several things are easier to reach while driving, i.e. sunvisor, things on the dash
- Like having the cab door for easier exit
- Seems more natural having the steer wheels out in front instead of under or slightly behind me
- The road seems wider since I am sitting closer to it
- The rig seems narrower since the cab portion is not as wide
(Those 2 characteristics lets my wife feel confident enough to drive it)
- Feel less concern over possible breakdowns since more truck repair places would welcome me
- Biggest was the over-cab sleeping area for the grandkids. No climbing over a pulled out couch.

On the con side;
- The ride seems harsh compared to the air suspension. The Jayco Seneca just has rear air bags. I feel confident that it wouldn't compare favorably to full air suspension.
- The engine noise level is greater than the DP
- The usable inside space is reduced as much as the engine hood length

I really liked the Jayco Seneca, however my RV garage, is only 40' long. (I wasn't the original owner)

I agree with Hank85713 about the ability for passengers to utilize facilities while in motion. Often I drive from breakfast to lunch with no stops. During that time my will go to the bathroom 3-4 times plus getting me water or snacks. Add a couple more passengers and more potential stops are avoided.

Everyone's wants, utilizations, and financial justifications are different. My $.02 worth is, if you want a Super C, get a Super C.

[loggenrock]

For us the issue of coach vs TC was safety. We often use truckstops/WalMart/etc for an overnight when we are travelling and throwing the miles down. A coach means you do not have to go outside to get in the tow vehicle if you experience an issue at 0-dark 30, you just slide into the captain's seat, turn the key, and drive away from the potential problem. have only had to do that once since 1989, but was sure glad we had that ability. Can't do that in a TC, TT, or 5er. So it really depends how you plan to use your rig. Having a larger rig and a smaller tow vehicle certainly has its advantages over a large truck and a large 5er - still tough to find a parking space be it at a grocery store or a tourist attraction. My 2 cents! ST

[Hank85713]

Generally an MH is no noisier than the camper is. If you dont hear all the clanging then you pack well. WIfe puts small towels between pots etc, we use paper plates stuff like that in the trailer (still have) plus the rv. Rv's really are not all that quiet they seem to produce noises like everything else. Biggest thing is like I said for the wife to be able to go to bathroom, or fridge while in motion, no need to pull over for her. But for the driver really no difference other than you climb over the dog house vs going out and unlocking the trailer door. Plus with the rv as you have noted need to pull something to actually drive to go somewhere, with the trailer the tow vehicle is the go with vehicle and no need to hook or unhook elec, drains water etc once set up if going someplace.

Really it all depends on what you think you need.dont know how many kids are involved but the 4dr trucks are fairly comfy and roomy. We used to let the kids ride in the camper (TC) and watch tv/play games but the trucks are bigger now so they can have pretty much room to themselves unless there are more than 2. We enjpyed the camper we had, we enjoyed the trailer, and the rv is fine, wife thought I put too much effort once we stopped to set up the trailer, but the rv is about as bad even with auto levelers. ground too soft, not level etc just like with the trailer. But some will say pull hit auto and sit back, if only...................

[usmcshepherd]

We have never had a motorhome of any kind (A, B, C) so one of the reasons we have done the TC and 5th Wheel option was the noise we imagined going down the road in an A, B or C and hearing all the pots and pans rattling around...is this really an issue?

I am really surprised by the comments I'm getting as I expected to hear nothing but encouragement about moving to a motorhome as they're all that!! So far it seems like most are saying to stay with a TC or 5th wheel?

[Hank85713]

we just got back from aquick trip to colo springs in our 04 F350 FX4. Wife was pleased with the comfort (only 2 of us) and the mileage was ok for a 7500+ veh at 80mph. Anyhow the wife made the comment that the truck is more comfortable than the E450 MH and its only advantage was that she could get up go to the bathroom or get something out of the fridge while moving.

Hear/read about folks complaining about the rough rides in their tow vehicles, must be something they are too sensitive to. The truck we have rides just as smooth or smoother than some cars we have been in plus gives more room. really dont know what the complaint is. we have airbags I keep at 15 psi and we had no complaints even on some of the construction areas we encountered.Actually I prefer the truck/trailer to the MH but that is what she wanted still have to find a place to pull over when driving to go P or whatever, so no benefit in reality for the driver.

[usmcshepherd]

We have been considering full timing and since we had the new Tundra we thought this might be the best option...the other option was moving to a 5th wheel but we thought that traveling in the motorhome would be more comfortable than the pickup. Also, money isn't the biggest concern here as is the best option for what we are considering. We've had a 5th wheel before and I know they've come a long ways in just the last couple of years, but again we are then traveling in our HD Truck which often times isn't the most comfortable when there isn't a load on it.

[2lazy4U]

I second coolmom's advice to get a trailer. That way you can keep the TC for times when you want it, and the trailer will cost much less and be way easier to maintain. Most trailers are just as comfy as any motorhome, some more so. Easier to resell if you want a different rig later.

Do you really want two engines to maintain? Not to mention taxes, insurance, higher plates, etc.

[Hank85713]

remember that most of the supers are diesel and they run AIR BRAKE systems and these are not cheap to maintain when needed. Yes many DP's use air brakes and they are probably poorly maintained as well. Minimum costs for a NEW super is around $200K, even used are expensive. Now with all that said they are nice, but its the extra $$ to purchase and maintain that creates questions. Look at a class c like the Melbourne by jayco, they have halway bunks if that is really what ya want. ALso the melborne is setup pretty nice, was looking at them before we got our winnebago aspect.

[coolmom42]

In your shoes I would upgrade to a travel trailer and use the Tundra to pull it. Much less money, and no more hassle than trailering the Tundra. I agree that you are getting into a lot more complicated systems with a big C. If you've been a dedicated truck camper, you are used to making it without a lot of bells/whistles. The systems are a lot less to maintain in a trailer.

The value of solar is not having to listen to/run/deal with a generator.

[2lazy4U]

I don't believe you can tow Toyotas except on a trailer. I have an FJ Cruiser that can't be towed wheels down and it's my understanding that none of them can be.

One value of having solar is you won't irritate your neighbors with noise and you can also boondock when you want.

In my opinion, you'll be trading the simplicity of your TC for a big bundle of things to maintain and worry about, not to mention the costs (purchasing, maintenance, gas, etc.). You will also lose value with each year. You will also be much more limited in where you can go.

Simplicity = happiness. If you must go this route, maybe consider a Class B, as all the negatives will be on a smaller scale, hopefully.